- This topic has 87 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated Dec 27-7:17 am by BobC.
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Xecure
Has anyone checked ~/.desktop-session/desktop-session.conf?
It is great news that it has already been thought of. The startup dialog entry will be very usefull if we ever add a welcome script, and very easy to dissable by commenting that line out.
I checked the python script referenced in desktop-session.conf. After replacing the icons, and launching it, I feel it still isn’t ideal for a welcome screen. It lets you open the FAQ in a browser, but as anticapitalista says, most people don’t like reading. The FAQ is ideal for people who want to learn how everything works in more detail, but a simplified text would be good for people learning how to start and do elementary stuff (too much is overwhelming). Once they see things working well, feel less lost and want to start doing more advanced stuff, they will check the FAQ that would be linked in the welcome screen.antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.PPC
@Dave: I didn’t check that. It’s hard to stop such a thing, unless you know it’s already there… It’s similar to when, trying to address some users complaints about the fact that “antiX did not update”, I began to work on that and found out that the option to automatically check for updates was already in an antiX script, but not used…
Automatically starting, by default antiX’s FAQs in a browser would be ideal to help clueless newbies ( and maybe a new boot Fx option to disable that, or a similar system (like a tick box, at first boot) for users that just want to use antiX live USB like it’s a “installed” system- I did that often)
antiX’s FAQ’s are great, they are very carefully done, and have almost all the info a newbie needs to know, but it has several small problems:
– They are fully “searchable”- they are only webpages, the user can only search text on the current page. That can be solved teo ways: merge the webpages into a single giant one or create a PDF file, merging all the webpages and get a MX linux style manual- not a bad idea- easy to search, not too resource demanding and easily updatable)
– Not being fully searchable, a user that just wants to fins some basic info, like “How do I set up my HP printer?” “How do way put icons on the desktop?”, has to read trough several topics until the need information is found. The only way to solve that is reworking the index on the left side of the FAQ’s webpage, so ti would be understnadable for a new user- a tedious and complex work.Personal note: I found out a lot about antiX using the FAQ’s when I began using this OS but I had a problem- I have bad memory and I always had to cycle trough the FAQ’s because the order of the info did not make sense to me. A new user does not know what IceWM is, and should not need to know unless he/she wants to. How many users know what Windows 10 desktop is called? It’s not a “need to know info”, to use the computer. What a user needs to know is how to do stuff in the desktop.
Example1: instead of the FAQ’s index listing “IceWM, Fluxbox and JWM” it would make sense to have a clicable first level “Your Desktop” and then “IceWM – the default desktop, Fluxbox and JWM”.
Example2: we could go at it the other way around – it makes more sense to me, but it’s a lot more work: the FAQ’s index could list the activities (“Adding a printer”, etc, and then be divided by each of the available desktops – once again, starting by the default IceWM)– They are not translated? I can help with that, in portuguese
– Some entries could be a bit updated (once again, I can help with that)P.
Dave
After replacing the icons, and launching it, I feel it still isn’t ideal for a welcome screen.
Was not really meant to be one. More of an example and something that could be expanded upon. There was not much love for the idea in the past.
You should also be able to enable / disable with the option prior like
STARTUP_DIALOG=”false” / STARTUP_DIALOG=”true”
But that may be broken now.Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown
Xecure
I have spent a few weeks working on this. I was starting to get burnt out, so I think I will finish it here. It has a lot of grammar and orthographic problems, and the formatting of the script is also bad, but this is not important now.
It is a lot of text, so I doubt it can go in to any antiX release (as translating would be a nightmare).For me, as a personal project, it has helped me a lot. My scripting knowledge has increased quite a bit, so even if it is a bad project, it has benefited me.
If you are interested, and you have the time, I would appreciate some of your feedback.
Thanks in advance for your time.
antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.
Brian Masinick
I have spent a few weeks working on this. I was starting to get burnt out, so I think I will finish it here. It has a lot of grammar and orthographic problems, and the formatting of the script is also bad, but this is not important now.
It is a lot of text, so I doubt it can go in to any antiX release (as translating would be a nightmare).For me, as a personal project, it has helped me a lot. My scripting knowledge has increased quite a bit, so even if it is a bad project, it has benefited me.
If you are interested, and you have the time, I would appreciate some of your feedback.
Thanks in advance for your time.
Whether this tool becomes a part of the distribution or not, I heartily congratulate you on a very nice job and also a very nice concept. Even if this isn’t chosen for antiX in the “lean and mean” configuration, it’s here, and it might be worthwhile pinning this topic and the tool somewhere, so that interested parties can use it. I’m not sure about MX Linux, but this kind of tool (adapted to their specifics in the distribution) might be a near perfect tool to add.
Debian is quite a bit different, even though MX and antiX both have a lot of software that was developed for Debian systems. Nevertheless, this would be an excellent tool to adapt to that environment as well.
No matter what becomes of it, I’d say you have learned a LOT about antiX in putting this together, you have spent a lot of time on it, and I send my deep thanks for it; personally I put the script in my ~/bin folder, where I can keep it and save my home directory, therefore maintaining this across releases. (Gotta get a few good backups somewhere, just in case of disk failures; remember to back up and restore your systems friends)! 🙂
Again, thumbs up, positive affirmations, and thank you!
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Brian Masinickwow, Xecure, light years ahead of my initial proposal! I’ve bee looking for a way to automaticaly mount video DVDs and I found it in your script (even after using antiX for about 3 years). Probably anticapitalista won’t use it in the default full antiX, but it will fit like a glove in the new full DE antiX version that seems to be in the works!
P.
caprea
Wow, that’s really a cool, fine piece of work.
If you ask me, it would look good in the full version.Xecure
Thank you all for the feedback. I wanted to add more things there, as PPC mentioned in his other posts about adding things to the menu, creating .desktops files, etc. but the Desktop section was getting too long, so they weren’t added. I just checked and I am not getting the desired results for some buttons on the Network section, that was the last I was testing (I was a bit tired at this point, so I just speed ran and didn’t properly test).
No matter what becomes of it, I’d say you have learned a LOT about antiX in putting this together,
That is for sure, masinick. I think I even found a solution to a bug in the repo-manager (I reported it on the gitlab page to be tested and included in future updates if it works).
antiX has much more than can be found in the FAQ, that is for sure. Full of hidden gems. Lots of things in the antix-goodies package.
Thank you for your kind words.wow, Xecure, light years ahead of my initial proposal! I’ve bee looking for a way to automaticaly mount video DVDs and I found it in your script
Thanks, PPC. I have to thank you too, as a lot of things I wrote are based on your miniguides in the forum. I would really like if we could build a wiki (for example hosted in a site like wikidot or some other) where they wont be lost (or covered by new forum posts).
And yes, automount-antix is great for controlling automount behavior!Wow, that’s really a cool, fine piece of work.
Thank you, caprea. I also want to thank you for all the solutions you give in the forum. When I encounter a difficult problem, I always search and explore past answers in the forum. Many times your answers have lead me to a resolution. Thank you.
It was a very profiting exercise. I read a some of the many scripts, including the control center one, and learnt a lot from them.
Many thanks to the dev team and to all of you that contribute your knowledge and expertise in this forum. Most of what I know about linux an antiX I learnt from you.
antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.Brian Masinick
@Xecure: Written like the articulate gentleman that you appear to be, giving credit to others, having a thankful attitude, and leveraging the work of everyone in the community. This work is a great example of what a community can be, and as far as software communities, I’ve never found a more helpful one than this one right here!
Great job to all who participate; collective congratulations to all!
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Brian MasinickBobC
I will try to restart this discussion, and thus move it from the negative perspective over to positive.
My thought is Keep it “Lean and Mean”. A heading, One quick line of intro and then, Put the stumbling block questions and links to the answers right there on the screen.
Welcome to antiX Linux version XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (shows what is running)
– WiFi Connect
– Choose Wallpaper– Set System Keyboard Layout
– Set Screen Resolution
– Set Font Size DPI
– Set Date/Time– antiX Updater
– Package Installer
– Control Center (many more settings and utilities)
– App Select (Search for and run installed applications)– antiX Home (Videos)
– antiX Forum
– antiX Wiki– Skip this screen next time
Use the exact same wording as the menus or other documents so translation effort is minimal. Don’t put a lot of text on the screen. Only put options on the screen people might need to get up and running, and links to find other things. Use Dave’s idea to save whether or not the screen should be displayed. PPC and Xecure’s YAD idea is obviously good.
anticapitalista needs to Ok what he wants to see. My hope is the result will be an easier transition and learning curve for those willing to look and try what’s suggested.
PS: I left out PPC’s IceWM Toolbar Icon Manager. I wish we had a way to know what options people are using. Another thing along the same lines that power users would want is an easy way to autostart applications without learning script programming, for example. I’m not sure they would be used often enough that they belong on a welcome screen, but maybe most people don’t even know they exist, but would wish they did if they understood how much easier it is to have the things you use all the time just one click away. Maybe someone should lock the negative thread so it goes away, LOL.
PSS: I hadn’t noticed the 2nd page on the thread, so I need to look at Xecure’s work above. I’m not against better solutions, just worried that if the obstacle items are noit right there in front of the newbies face, they won’t ever read to find it on another tab or screen. I also wish we had an automatic screen scaler coming in so that the people with high res 4K screens could read the options (and we wouldn’t need the screen resolution or font size options above), because it seems few people know that they need to change the font size via F6 on the boot.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by BobC.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by BobC.
Anonymous
> There was not much love for the idea in the past.
my recollection is that strong sentiment was expressed by “both sides”
(the discussion(s) occurred in the context of betatesting the antiX16 or antix17 release)…> Skip this screen next time
…and that, among the “negatives”, top of list was the comment stating “for a non-persistence liveboot user, there is no ‘next’ time. It’s every time, an eternal nuisance, must dismiss the popup before proceeding with the session.” (FWIW, I do not share this sentiment. I’m just parroting it.)
> almost everybody (including ‘reviewers’) REFUSE to read any documentation, instructions etc.
refuse, or the user did not select locale/timezone/kb at the boot screen and/or no translation has been prepared for languageX, or…
> Set Screen Resolution
This almost needs to be a precursor, occurring prior to presentation of the ‘welcome’ popup. Otherwise, the fancy/friendly guidance will not be easily readible. Also, what is the minimal X*Y screen dimensions it will accommodate? A 30mm tall logo header (as seen in mockup image earlier in this topic) will be an UNwelcome waste of screen for viewers with low-res displays.
> Put the stumbling block questions and links to the answers right there on the screen.
IMO, everything in the boblist posted above could be pushed offscreen ~~ off the main welcome page, tucked into a “Getting Started — Common Questions” subpage. Liveboot users are likely to have their own separate “can o’ worms” questions; perhaps accessibility/discoverability begs a MainPage link leading to live-related help. Perhaps the app should detect whether a live session is underway, conditionally displaying an alternative MainPage?
It seems to me that when I boot the flashdrive it remembers my machine and maybe reconnects my wifi. If true, then maybe it could also remember if the welcom screen bypass had been clicked.
If we change nothing we can expect to keep enduring the perpetual “lost and frustrated” users, followed by the negative threads and reviews that have nagged us since I can’t remember when. There will always be lost users, but the hope is there might be fewer, and maybe not so lost, and maybe less frustrated.
I booted antiX 19.3 full. It was NOT readable. No WiFi by default. No welcome screen or hints what to do. It is blazing fast to boot compared to the others.
I booted Debian live. It was NOT readable. It had no welcome screen. It popped up a little “Network connections are available” window for me to click to connect. It wasn’t fast. I worried it was dead.
I booted Fedora. It WAS readable. It had a useless welcome screen. No hint on the network connection, but easy once you find it.
I booted Xbuntu. It was NOT readable. No hint on the network connection. You wouldn’t be able to see it anyway. It had 7 screens of unreadable Welcome settings. I couldn’t read well enough to make it past the second one. It is painfully slow. .
I booted MX 19.3 KDE. It was not very readable. It has a welcome screen, but you can’t tell what to click. With a magnifying glass you will be ok.
I booted MX 19.3 32 bit. It was not very readable. It has a welcome screen, but you can’t tell what to click. With a magnifying glass you will be ok.
I booted Manjaro OpenBox. It was not readable. It has a welcome screen with a launch at start checkbox.
I booted Knoppix 8.6. It was not readable. No welcome screen. Popped up a WiFi network authentication required window which remembered my routers password.
I booted SparkyLinux. It was NOT readable. No WiFi by default. No welcome screen or hints what to do.
I booted SlackoPup 6.9.9. It was not readable. It had a welcome screen that included changing keyboard, screen and wifi setup, but intially you couldn’t read it without a magnifying glass.
I booted ArcoLinuxD. It was NOT readable. No WiFi by default. It has a welcome screen, and if you look closely (ie magnifier) it says the network isn’t connected. No hints about how to make the screen readable.
I booted ArcoLinux. It was NOT readable. No WiFi by default. It has a welcome screen, and if you look closely (ie magnifier) it says the network isn’t connected. No hints about how to make the screen readable.
I booted Ubuntu. It WAS readable. It had no welcome screen. No hint on the language or network connection, but easy once you find them at the top.
I booted PoP!_OS. It WAS readable. It popped up a box saying Displays adjusted to HiDPI and then a Welcome window that looked nice where I selected language, then a couple more then offered to Install or Demo.
It’s not my call to decide if that is worth trying to improve or not. Just saying I think we can make it a bit easier. The screen should be readable, and it should help you get connected, and give a clue on changing the language, IMO.
PS: On the subject of “refuse”, I think most times they just bounce along not noticing that they need to hit this function key or that, not that they actually refuse, they just don’t notice till after its booted. And sometime it isn’t obvious what to select. If it said “High Res 4K Video” instead of “Font Size 2.0” someplace I could see, I might have noticed it. I’m happy its there, but I missed it too. I did like that Fedora guessed for me. Again, please note I just asked for simple buttons that run the same programs that are on the menu. No extra text to read. Just click it or don’t.
PSS: I’m done with trying different distros. As far as size of a Welcome to antiX screen, I would like to see 640×480 or 800×600 so it would fit the oldest machines or the newest ones. Again, with just header, buttons and label, that should fit, and normal people would get off to a good start.
PSSS: I looked at PPC’s and Xecure’s and am plagiarizing from them. I will post it tomorrow.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by BobC.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by BobC.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by BobC.
Ok, here’s my try. Obviously I stole most of it from PPC and Xecures ideas and code, but see if it doesn’t look and feel better. I didn’t do the “make it stop, please” checkbox. I’ve never programmed any YAD stuff, so I was floundering badly with it. The new icon for the antiX loge is hard coded in a bad place for the moment, so be sure to load it where it expects to be or change it.
PS: the layout is assuming we already have adjusted the display for HiDPI setups, so everyone should be able to read the screen, so we don’t need the arandr or font size settings on the main screen
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by BobC.
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@Bob – I worked until I found out a one liner that, sends the user directly to the wireless config screen – you can mix that with your script that checks for connectivity, and if non if found, display the wirelees configuration GUI:
connmanctl enable wifi && cmst -d& sleep 1 && xdotool key Alt+wEdit: the full “detect and configure wi-fi networks” script would be something like this (using your original ideas mixed with mine):
##Check for connectivity. If no network connection is detected, activate wi-fi networks, open connman and go straight to the wi-fi connections tab... sleep 3 connected_addr=$(ip addr | grep "inet " | sed '/ scope host /d') if [ -z "$connected_addr" ]; then pkill cmst connmanctl enable wifi && cmst -d & sleep 1 && xdotool key Alt+w else echo 'Network connection detected, no need to configure anything' fi ###I also worked on the original welcome screem, converting it into a kind of antiX simple Control Panel, with all basic options available on a single screen, with a nice touch: hovering on a button, displays a tooltip, that tells exactly what the user needs to do to preform any given configuration action (where to click to configure a wi-fi network, or select a new wallpaper, etc)…
It’s in portuguese, adapted for our brazilian users.. If you want I can post it here…
P.- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by PPC.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by PPC.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by PPC.
anticapitalista
Excellent ideas in this thread. Keep up the great work!
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
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