- This topic has 87 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated Dec 27-7:17 am by BobC.
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marcelocripe
BobC wrote:
Yes, I can see yours is intended to provide easy access to commonly needed mostly control functions. If I was a beginning user, I might find like something like that to be very handy on my toolbar. marcel maybe can comment on that idea.@BobC, I am very happy to be able to collaborate with what I can. I apologize for taking too long to return to this topic, my online time is limited and I am slow to type.
I agree with you that it could and could be very useful in the toolbar or even as a desktop shortcut icon (Rox) and in the main menu, right under the “Control Center” menu.
I already said and I repeat, I will apply the “Control Panel” and the “Welcome Screen”, I may even take time to be able to translate everything, but I will use it, there is no way I cannot see the value and potential of these works already presented and made available in this topic. (I thank everyone.)
I showed some people the “Control Panel” and everyone liked it a lot, they answered “Almost everything I need is there …”. And what “is not” I add on the toolbar or with a desktop shortcut icon.
@PPC was kind enough to send me the “Control Panel” in European Portuguese, I adapted the texts to Brazilian Portuguese. I made some changes to the titles, they are with the text even closer to what exists in Windows XP and Windows 7. I still couldn’t finish the text of the comments, these are extremely important, because there the user will have a brief explanation is or what each option is for, for that the mouse cursor must remain stopped over the option. As soon as I am able to complete I will send it to PPC. If he approves the texts, he can send them in English to you. At least, my experience in creating manuals or handouts for students can be useful in this development process.
I highlight the way the PPC did, it did not include the line breaks “\ n” in the comment texts, so the amount of information that can be inserted is free. This way, viewing in any language will be good. Each language consumes a different amount of space, when the space is limited to description / comment / explanation is limited to the available space, the result can be a text that will not be understood by the end user.
For example, I am correcting the explanations of the “Toolbar Icon Manager for IceWM” on the transifex site for the Brazilian Portuguese translation (not yet the final version), as the only line breaks “\ n” are to separate the titles of the paragraphs of the texts, the paragraphs can have detailed information without me having to worry about whether the text in Brazilian Portuguese will fit or not in the available space. I ask you to evaluate this possibility on the “Presentation Screen” or “Welcome Screen”.
The language used in this Linux distribution is different from the language used in other Linux distributions. The terms that are used in Linux distributions are different from the terms that are used in Windows. With the “Control Panel” and “Welcome Screen” having this profile, to be “familiar” or “similar”, the new user’s first contact with antiX will be something “common” for them.
PPC wrote:
I wrote the Portuguese version of my “Welcome screen” so Marcelo could use it in is antiX installs. I even translated it as “Control Panel” (the same expression as MS Window’s Control Panel), so Marcelo and his users could at least perform the basic actions listed there.Thank you very much PPC, it will be of great use. I hope that everyone can have the “Control Panel” and “Welcome Screen” in the next versions or updates of antiX.
I suggest not to be in a hurry to add the “Control Panel” and “Welcome Screen” to antiX, wait for the translations to be ready, without the translations the goal will not be reached to the largest possible number of users.
I thank you for allowing me to participate.
marcelocripe
(Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)———-
BobC wrote:
Yes, I can see yours is intended to provide easy access to commonly needed mostly control functions. If I was a beginning user, I might find like something like that to be very handy on my toolbar. marcel maybe can comment on that idea.@BobC, eu fico muito contente em poder colaborar com o que eu consigo. Eu peço desculpas por demorar para retornar neste tópico, o meu tempo online é limitado e eu sou lento digitando.
Eu concordo com você que poderia e pode sim ser muito útil na barra de ferramentas ou mesmo como um ícone de atalho da área de trabalho (Rox) e ainda no menu principal, logo em baixo do menu “Centro de Controle”.
Eu já disse e repito, eu vou aplicar o “Painel de Controle” e a “Tela de Boas-Vindas”, eu posso até demorar para conseguir traduzir tudo, mas eu vou utilizar, não tem como não enxergar o valor e o potencial destes trabalhos já apresentados e disponibilizados neste tópico. (Eu agradeço a todos.)
Eu mostrei para algumas pessoas o “Painel de Controle” e todos gostaram muito, me responderam “Quase tudo que eu preciso está lá …”. E o que “não estiver” eu adiciono na barra de ferramentas ou com um ícone de atalho da área de trabalho.
O @PPC fez a gentileza de me enviar o “Painel de Controle” em Português Europeu, eu adaptei os texto para Português do Brasil. Eu fiz alguns alterações nos títulos, estão com o texto ainda mais próximos do que existe no Windows XP e no Windows 7. Eu ainda não consegui concluir os texto dos comentários, estes são extremamente importantes, pois ali o usuário terá a explicação resumida do que é ou para que serve cada opção, para isso o cursor do mouse precisa permanecer parado sobre a opção. Assim que eu conseguir concluir eu enviarei ao PPC. Se ele aprovar os textos poderá enviá-lo em inglês para vocês. Ao menos, a minha experiência em criar manuais ou apostilas para os alunos podem ser úteis neste processo de desenvolvimento.
Eu destaco a forma que o PPC fez, ele não incluiu as quebras de linhas “\n” nos textos dos comentários, então fica livre a quantidade de informações que podem ser inseridas. Assim ficará bom a visualização em qualquer idioma. Cada idioma consome uma quantidade diferente de espaço, quando o espaço é limitado a descrição/comentário/explicação ficam limitadas ao espaço disponível, o resultado pode ser um texto que não será compreendido pelo usuário final.
Por exemplo, eu estou corrigindo as explicações da “Toolbar Icon Manager for IceWM” no site transifex para a tradução Português do Brasil (ainda não é a versão final), como as únicas as quebras de linhas “\n” são para separar os títulos dos parágrafos dos textos, os parágrafos podem possuir informações detalhadas sem que eu tenha que me preocupar se o texto em Português do Brasil irá caber ou não no espaço disponível. Eu peço que avaliem esta possibilidade na “Tela de Apresentação” ou “Tela de Boas-Vindas”.
A linguagem utilizada nesta distribuição Linux é diferente da linguagem utilizada em outras distribuições Linux. Os termos que são utilizados em distribuições Linux são diferentes dos termos que são utilizados no Windows. Com o “Painel de Controle” e “Tela de Boas-Vindas” tendo este perfil, de ser “familiar” ou “semelhante”, o primeiro contato do novo usuário com o antiX será algo “comum” para eles.
PPC wrote:
I wrote the Portuguese version of my “Welcome screen” so Marcelo could use it in is antiX installs. I even translated it as “Painel de Controlo” (the same expression as MS Window’s Control Panel), so Marcelo and his users could at least perform the basic actions listed there.Muito obrigado PPC, será de grande utilidade. Eu espero que todos possam ter o “Painel de Controle” e a “Tela de Boas-Vindas” nas próximas versões ou atualizações do antiX.
Eu sugiro para não terem pressa de adicionarem ao antiX o “Painel de Controle” e “Tela de Boas-Vindas”, esperem as traduções estarem prontas, sem as traduções o objetivo não será alcançado ao maior número possível de usuários.
Eu agradeço por me permitirem participar.
marcelocripe
(Texto original em Português do Brasil)BobC
marcello, for the system to be really good, it needs to be easy enough that normal people can intuitively figure out with no training or difficulty what to do correctly. That will lead to a higher percentage of happy normal people type users, and less frustrated or failed ones, and fewer questions to answer. I hope people will see it as “it just works”, but it actually takes a lot of effort to get it there.
At the same time the system must not waste the time of or offend the techie people that know what they want to do, and how to do it already. antiX, because of it’s high performance, “lean and mean” mentality has got a lot of those people running it. They want the system to let them have the flexibility to do things their way, but without reinventing the wheel, or creating a maintenance nightmare.
Questions like yours and Moddit’s, for example, when answered, provide the clues and basis for improvements to the system that normal people will appreciate, and each of those problems solved means fewer frustrations for someone else trying it for the first time next month.
I did get the system to boot from flashdrive with both 4K monitors running. It started working all of a sudden when shutting down, which was odd.
It was difficult to get the external big screen on the left and internal laptop screen on the right with arandr, and some things are funky, like opening firefox and the window was maximized both horizontally and vertically, and only occupied the left 1/6 of the screen. Luckily full screen did work.
The font size has quirks, like the clock digits are too large, and the conky doesn’t know what screen to be on. Interestingly, a disconcerting (but minimal) problem is the background ending up zoomed in on one part of the pattern and it looks lousy as a result.
I haven’t tried Xecure’s code yet, as this was my first try at getting it running.
PS: I didn’t need the nVidia drivers to make it work. I guess the info on the web was wrong.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by BobC.
Brian Masinick
marcello, for the system to be really good, it needs to be easy enough that normal people can intuitively figure out with no training or difficulty what to do correctly. That will lead to a higher percentage of happy normal people type users, and less frustrated or failed ones, and fewer questions to answer. I hope people will see it as “it just works”, but it actually takes a lot of effort to get it there.
At the same time the system must not waste the time of or offend the techie people that know what they want to do, and how to do it already. antiX, because of it’s high performance, “lean and mean” mentality has got a lot of those people running it. They want the system to let them have the flexibility to do things their way, but without reinventing the wheel, or creating a maintenance nightmare.
Questions like yours and Moddit’s, for example, when answered, provide the clues and basis for improvements to the system that normal people will appreciate, and each of those problems solved means fewer frustrations for someone else trying it for the first time next month.
Well said, thank you!
👍😎--
Brian MasinickI got the dual 4K video machine booting quite nicely using Xecures nice autoscale script which I ended up tweaking to just fix it but give you 10 seconds to override, and PPC nice connection helper script. Xecure is still working on the Welcome screen itself, and I’ve suggested we try his control Centre combined with my concept of a welcome or first steps tab that show the first other things most new users need to take care of, language/keyboard, wifi, firewall?, date and time, updates, package installer, install. That way people get used to using the control Centre and all the other tabs would be there too. We’d need to add a links/help/shortcuts tab where we could put those things, including PPCs shortcuts menu . That should help satisfy moddit and marcelos requests, and provide a smoother first experience for new users.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by BobC.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by BobC.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by BobC.
marcelocripe
BobC wrote:
“… and provide a smoother first experience for new users.”The friendlier first-time users’ first contact with antiX is, the greater the chance that the community will grow and the greater the chance that more people will fall in love with antiX.
In my understanding and current view on this “world of Linux distributions” is that GUI are ideas for users who do not master the Terminal / Console, the most experienced, I believe that they should solve everything via CLI. And it makes no difference to advanced users whether or not there are solutions aimed at novice users. These solutions just can’t get in the way of advanced users. I also believe that they should prefer to build their own antiX from the core, net or base versions.
The first “like” for the video above and some other videos on your YouTube channel were mine. A simple way to collaborate.
Thank you very much for your excellent work on antiX Linux.
marcelocripe
(Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)———-
BobC wrote:
“… and provide a smoother first experience for new users.”Quanto mais amigável for o primeiro contato dos usuários iniciantes com o antiX, maior será as chances da comunidade crescer e maior será as chances de mais pessoas se apaixonarem pelo antiX.
No meu entendimento e visão atual sobre este “mundo das distribuições Linux” é que as GUI são ideias para os usuários que não dominam o Terminal/Console, os mais experientes, acredito eu que devem resolver tudo via CLI. E que não faz diferença alguma para os usuários avançados se existem ou não soluções direcionadas aos usuários iniciantes. Estas soluções só não podem atrapalhar os usuários avançados. Eu acredito também que devam preferir construir o seu próprio antiX à partir das versões core, net ou base.
O primeiro “like” do vídeo acima e de alguns outros vídeos do seu canal do YouTube foram os meus. Uma forma simples de colaborar.
Muito obrigado pelo seu excelente trabalho no antiX Linux.
marcelocripe
(Texto original em Português do Brasil)marcelocripe
@BobC and @Xecure,
Please, could you provide the link to download the script of your latest versions created by you of the photos from 11/23-2020 at 6:18 am and 1:02 pm.
I would like to test. The version that works the easiest for me, I intend to translate it into the Brazilian Portuguese language with the help of internet translators and include it in the next antiX installations that I do. Even if the “Welcome Screen” is not included in the standard antiX ISO, at least your work can be enjoyed and used by others. I can see the value of your work and know that it can be useful in helping other people new to computers and antiX Linux learners. I also know that it will have a very small scope compared to the inclusion in the ISO, which unfortunately will not occur.
The “Control Panel” created by @PPC is already ready in Brazilian Portuguese and will be used in the next antiX installations that I make. As soon as I finish creating the shortcut icon, the text “.txt” explaining how to use the script and the icon image, I intend to compress everything in a “.zip” file and make the download link available for others to use. can access.
I already thank all of you.
Thank you!
marcelocripe
(Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)———-
@BobC e @Xecure,
Por favor, vocês poderiam disponibilizar o link para download do script das suas últimas versões criadas por vocês das fotos dos dia 23-11-2020 às 6:18 am e 1:02 pm.
Eu gostaria de testar. A versão que funcionar mais fácil comigo, eu pretendo fazer a tradução para o idioma Português do Brasil com a ajuda dos tradutores da internet e incluir nas próximas instalações do antiX que eu fizer. Mesmo que a “Tela de Boas-vindas” não seja incluída na ISO padrão do antiX, ao menos o trabalho de vocês podem ser aproveitado e utilizado por outras pessoas. Eu consigo enxergar o valor do trabalho de vocês e sei que podem ser úteis para ajudar outras pessoas iniciantes em informática e aprendizes do antiX Linux. Eu sei também que terá uma abrangência muito pequena se comparada a inclusão na ISO, que infelizmente não ocorrerá.
O “Painel de Controle” criado pelo @PPC já está pronto em idioma Português do Brasil e será utilizado nas próximas instalações do antiX que eu fizer. Assim que eu concluir a criação do ícone de atalho, do texto “.txt” explicativo de como utilizar o script e a imagem do ícone, eu pretendo compactar tudo em um arquivo “.zip” e disponibilizar o link para download para que outras pessoas possam ter acesso.
Desde já agradeço a todos vocês.
Muito obrigado!
marcelocripe
(Texto original em Português do Brasil)Anonymous
excerpt from a PM that I received today from marcelocripe:
…there are no texts in https://www.transifex.com/anticapitalista/antix-development
[..]
If you can send me the correct file by email…skidoo is not involved with transifex.
marcelocripe might send a PM to anticapitalista to mention the missing files.In case the point of my prior post regarding the prospect of “making it more educational by expanding the controlCenter labels to include additional parenthesized text” was unclear:
regardless of locale, the longer text strings cannot be easily accommodated by the columnar (and wordwrapped) layout employed in antixcc
Marcelo, the dev’s decided that they don’t want a Welcome screen or anything like it. It just doesn’t match with their vision of what they want antiX to be. Therefore, it would need to be either a component part of a respin or an a program each user wanting it would need to add.
That doesn’t mean its impossible, but it would be a headache to support longer term.
The reason for most of the things we advocated was to make it easier for newer users, and as a result also making the system require less effort to support.
Xecure was doing the hard work, and I think the dev’s now have him busy on many other things needed next spring for the new antiX coming out.
PS: this is a normal thing that happens in the world of computer programming. We came up with an idea and we prototyped an application (at least a lot of it) to show what it would look like and how it would work, but the decision makers did not agree that it was something they wanted in the distro. It was much better for them to say that before we spent all the time on it that for them to tell us that after it was all working.
No one distro can possibly meet all the needs and likes of everyone developing or using it. That is just a fact of life. PPC has already suggested a “W 10 Replacer” respin that uses antiX underneath, and that is probably an idea worth considering. Maybe it could be easy and simple and “phone app” like, maybe using a launcher like userzero was using, driving a simple task oriented menu like PPC created, but it’s not reasonable to try to change antiX into that, as it would be straying far away from the wants of most of the people currently using antiX.
This is not a negative thing. It’s just that you need to understand that they are two very different goals, and therefore need two different solutions.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by BobC.
Brian Masinick
Brian Masinick
antiX has excellent tools to customize and create your own system, which you can use yourself and share with others if you want to do so
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Brian MasinickI did finish the Network and Wifi detection, and HiDPI display autoscaling, and got it tested and sent to anticaptalista. If he likes it we will have a paragraph of translation to do for the autoscaling, and none needed for the network detection. I posted the file here if anyone wants to test it and report back if any problems are found:
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