Proposal for antiX 21

Forum Forums antiX-development Translations Proposal for antiX 21

  • This topic has 51 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated Oct 11-11:06 pm by marcelocripe.
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  • #67386
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    Robin

    Hello everybody

    We have a really nice bootscreen allowing the selection of many languages. But once desktop comes up, most of them display many things in English language still. So I believe there should be some kind of information displayed, explaining this, and show people what they can do to get all this in their own language.

    So I have created an informational Sticker, which I suggest to display as a message superimposed on desktop of live antiX system after boot up. It is designed to get displayed without additional frame or border, straight on the desktop, as you can see in the photo composition attached. I don’t know whether it is easy or not to make this kind of superimposition work. It should only be displayed on NON-ENGLISH user interfaces (and maybe also not in those languages we know they are translated already. A blacklist would manage this.) Also it should only come up in a live environment. And then, when user clicks on it he should get a dialog allowing the choice:

        [x] don't show again
              [close]

    which makes vanish the message. The user decision could get stored the same way the wireless network key is remembered on live systems, so it wouldn’t come up again and again.

    What do you think of it? I believe many people don’t even know they could simply make translations for their language themselves, and how or where they have to look for, if they are willing. If they were informed, some of them surely would step in for their country. (This is a proposal merely, you can probably design much better stickers than me.)

    All images are derivated artwork based on a photograph by „WhiteRaven335” on Wikipedia, licensed under »Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International« license (CC BY-SA 4.0). You are free to use, modify and redistribute it under the same or compatible license as the original.

    #67393
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    skidoo
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    [x] don’t show again

    reminder: Dave has already created a “Welcome” popup dialog suitable for launching from session autostart ~~ it has been sitting idle, unused, for a couple years. Also, in a related antixforum topic earlier this year, I presented a mechanism which will handle (store) this detail for non-persistent liveboot users.

    A dialogbox displaying (sanskrit tablet? and) localized text would be beneficial. I would not favor text emblazoned over an image, though.
    — the example presented in post #1 is tough to read due to the busy background
    — shipping XX images, for each locale, would be bloaty
    — image readabiity will suffer, when scaled to fit XXxYY -sized displays

    Advertising the prospect of joining translation Team is a great idea, probably worthy of (also) mentioning this right on the antixlinux.com homepage.

    #67394
    Member
    PPC
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    Nice idea, but I don’t see anti putting that in antiX by default… It I got your idea correctly, it would need a script to check the language first, and, if it’s not english, then change the wallpaper to be displayed, to the one with the superimposed sticker…

    Edit: I should not have stopped for coffee – skidoo responded first… I second his opinions- having a warning in English would not be of much help to people that don’t understand it… But I get your idea- it’s good that the sticker is in English, because we need people that understand that language to help localize it… (so there’s probably no need for x localized images, one per language)

    P.

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by PPC.
    #67399
    Forum Admin
    Dave
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    reminder: Dave has already created a “Welcome” popup dialog suitable for launching from session autostart ~~ it has been sitting idle, unused, for a couple years. Also, in a related antixforum topic earlier this year, I presented a mechanism which will handle (store) this detail for non-persistent liveboot users.

    Correct; This is set in desktop-session.conf via the STARTUP_DIALOG and the STARTUP_DIALOG_CMD options. Set STARTUP_DIALOG=”true” and START_DIALOG_CMD to the program you would like to run. There are a couple of examples in the config file as well as a couple of sample programs using yad or python. Though those sample programs may not function anymore as I have not tried them to verify they are up to date (because they are not used). This can be turned on / off using a simple sed command (bash/yad) or various other meathods (Like with set-screen-blank for screen blank times)

    Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

    #67403
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    marcelocripe
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    I think the idea is excellent.

    People need to know that they can help antiX with the knowledge they have, that they just need to be willing to learn more and that they will need to donate their free time to voluntarily work on translations.

    We may also make public invitations on the forum, invite people to participate in the volunteer antiX translation work and programs created or maintained by the antiX community. The scope of these “invitations” on the ISO will be much greater than if they were made only on this forum.

    I use the media I have access to (Telegram, WhatsApp, Facebook and YouTube) to invite people to participate in this forum and the translation process.

    If the “invitation” text to be used in the antiX ISO is translated to pt-BR, I am absolutely sure that the scope will be even greater, I write this because I would not understand what is written in English language. It would be easier if you can copy the text in English and allow pasting the text in the internet translator. Know that you can count on me to prepare and edit the text in pt-BR.

    United by an increasingly translated antiX.

    marcelocripe

    – – – – –

    Eu acho a ideia excelente.

    As pessoas precisam saber que podem ajudar o antiX com o conhecimento que possui, que precisam apenas estarem dispostas a aprender mais e que precisarão doar o seu tempo livre para trabalhar voluntariamente nas traduções.

    Podemos ainda fazer convites públicos no fórum, convidar as pessoas a participarem do trabalho voluntário de tradução do antiX e dos programas criados ou mantidos pela comunidade antiX. O alcance destes “convites” na ISO serão muito maior do que se forem feitos apenas neste fórum.

    Eu utilizo os meios de comunicação que eu tenho acesso (Telegram, WhatsApp, Facebook e YouTube) para convidar as pessoas a participarem deste fórum e do processo de tradução.

    Se o texto de “convite” a ser utilizado na ISO do antiX for traduzido para o pt-BR, eu tenho certeza absoluta que o alcance será ainda maior, escrevo isso porque eu não compreenderia o que está escrito em idioma Inglês. Facilitaria se for possível copiar o texto em inglês e permitir colar o texto no tradutor da internet. Saibam que podem contar comigo para a elaboração e edição do texto em pt-BR.

    Unidos por um antiX cada vez mais traduzido.

    marcelocripe

    #67442
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    Robin
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    Many thanks for all your input.

    It I got your idea correctly, it would need a script to check the language first, and, if it’s not english, then change the wallpaper to be displayed, to the one with the superimposed sticker

    You are very close to it. I thought about a script displaying only the sticker-image itself, not changing to the complete Background. Indeed, I thought of displaying this sticker in English language only, for the system in these cases is still in English also. But:

    It would be easier if you can copy the text in English and allow pasting the text in the internet translator.

    This is true, the sticker doesn’t allow to copy the text to online translators (This would require some advanced display techniques, to make it work anyway. To difficult for me.)

    I would not favor text emblazoned over an image, though.
    — the example presented in post #1 is tough to read due to the busy background
    — shipping XX images, for each locale, would be bloaty
    — image readabiity will suffer, when scaled to fit XXxYY -sized displays

    You are probably right, @skidoo, this way of presentation has the disadvantage we’d have to create a new image file for each language, which bloats things unnecessarily. My thought while creating this was that a nice form of presentation could help to animate people to step in for it.
    And again you are true, the readability of this on low res devices is probably poor (here on my monitor it looked pretty good and was readable without problem.) The busy background is not that problematic, this could have been fixed by applying some advanced image processing in gimp, blurring the area behind the text. But both your other arguments are striking.

    So I have modified the original idea a bit.

    reminder: Dave has already created a “Welcome” popup dialog suitable for launching from session autostart ~~ it has been sitting idle, unused, for a couple years. Also, in a related antixforum topic earlier this year, I presented a mechanism which will handle (store) this detail for non-persistent liveboot users.

    Many thanks for the hint! I didn’t know there is an infrastructure ready for this already. This makes things pretty easy.

    This is set in desktop-session.conf via the STARTUP_DIALOG and the STARTUP_DIALOG_CMD options. Set STARTUP_DIALOG=”true” and START_DIALOG_CMD to the program you would like to run.

    Thank you very much for the detailed explanation, @Dave, I looked into it and meanwhile created a tiny script which could do the job.

    Repo: antix-translation-info on gitlab.

    This is a first testing version. Let me know any suggestions and whether it works also for you, I’ve tested it here already.
    And please, a versed English native speaker may fix the texts displayed. Details about where to place files can be found in the readme file of the repo. Suggestions where to put the extended information file(s) if the described folder (home directory) does not fit in concept are always welcome, then the hard coded links in script will have to be modified.

    @Xecure: I tried to create this in the antiX-contribs repo on gitlab, but it wouldn’t let me do anything else after creating the project. No file upload, no set up of directories etc. So I had to create it in my repo and you might fork it to this place now if you like.

    The scope of these “invitations” on the ISO will be much greater

    This is the reason why I would plead to include this in some way into antiX 21 ISO. People using antiX ISO in incomplete/missing languages seeing no or poor translations half in English, half in their own language (in the best case) need urgently to know there is something very easy they can do to change things, when they start antiX the first time, which in many cases will mean booting it from a live CD/DVD/USB.

    So, please give some feedback whether we should better follow this path and revise/tweak/polish the script, or dismiss the idea of including it last minute in antiX 21.

    Robin.

    #67450
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    Xecure
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    I don’t like the idea of sending invitations to forum member. If someone sends me an invitation, I feel like they are trying to force things on me, interfering with my free will.

    Would anyone consider this screen, instead of as an individual script, be a window (launched from a button) inside a “Change language” GUI? This is one of the things I think are missing in antiX, an easy way to switch between locales. I know that the installer lets you select the locale before installing, and also any user can do
    sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales
    but it isn’t as user friendly, and doesn’t give the option to replace the menus for their translated version.

    antiX Live system enthusiast.
    General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

    #67453
    Member
    Robin
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    Xecure, I’m sure »invitation« is not meant in the literal sense of the word. Nothing should get sent to anybody. Marcelo had planned to pin a message in the language subsections of the board informing people speaking foreign languages how they can support the translations.

    But what I adressed with this script is the following situation: A user boots Live medium, and selects “his” language from F2 Boot screen menu. And then he comes to an antiX desktop completely in English. And this without any explanation. I feel it is absolutely necessary to display something explaining things. Once a user is at the point of installing finally, he has probably noticed already that there are missing important parts of translation in his language, and this fact didn’t scare him.
    I believe, all this must be expressed right after reaching desktop of live antiX, (and only in all those languages which need it) so user knows that we do know there is something missing.

    This is one of the things I think are missing in antiX, an easy way to switch between locales.

    This is a different focus I believe, worth to add also, but in another place. Here it’s about information of live users.

    #67461
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    marcelocripe
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    Xecure, I’m sure »invitation« is not meant in the literal sense of the word. Nothing should get sent to anybody. Marcelo had planned to pin a message in the language subsections of the board informing people speaking foreign languages how they can support the translations.

    Robin, you understand my intention perfectly. I don’t know what is the proper word to use for a person not to feel as Xecure described. In Brazilian Portuguese the word “invite” or “invitation” (“convidar” or “convite”) has a good meaning, I like to be “invited” (“convidado”) to participate in good deeds, this word “invitation” (“convite”) is not imposing or aggressive for me, I don’t know how to word “invitation” (“convite”) is interpreted in other languages. I don’t know which word would be the most suitable, maybe “call” (“chamar”), or “ask” (“pedir”), or something that says “we need your help to translate antiX into your language and make it better every day for everyone people”. Because that’s what I see every day here on this forum, people from all corners of the planet working voluntarily for the constant improvement of the antiX operating system. It took me almost 3 months to figure out how I could collaborate or help with corrections/revisions of translations for pt-BR, it was Xecure with all his patience and dedication that instructed me. What we have to do is make everything easier for the next people, it doesn’t make any sense for the processes to remain difficult and complex, in people’s lives there are already many problems and computer programs need to facilitate rather than hinder.

    – – – – –

    Robin, você conseguiu compreender a minha intenção perfeitamente. Eu não sei qual é a palavra adequada que deve ser utilizada para a pessoa não se sentir como o Xecure descreveu. Em idioma Português do Brasil a palavra “convidar” ou “convite” tem um bom sentido, eu gosto de ser “convidado” a participar de boas ações, esta palavra “convite” não é impositiva ou agressiva para mim, eu não sei como a palavra “convite” é interpretada em outros idiomas. Eu não sei qual é a palavra que seria a mais adequada, talvez “chamar”, ou “pedir”, ou algo que diga “nós precisamos da sua ajuda para tornar o antiX traduzido em seu idioma e torná-lo cada dia melhor para todas as pessoas”. Pois é isso que eu vejo todos os dias aqui neste fórum, pessoas de todos os cantos do planeta trabalhando voluntariamente para a melhoria constante do sistema operacional antiX. Eu levei quase 3 meses até descobrir como eu poderia colaborar ou ajudar nas correções/revisões das traduções para pt-BR, foi o Xecure com toda a sua paciência e dedicação que me instruiu. O que temos que fazer é tornar tudo mais fácil para as próximas pessoas, não faz sentido algum os processos continuarem difíceis e complexos, na vida das pessoas já existem muitos problemas e os programas para computadores precisam facilitar ao invés de dificultar.

    #67469
    Member
    marcelocripe
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    Robin, please allow the user to copy the GUI texts from translation-info.sh.

    Robin, por favor, permita ao usuário copiar os textos da GUI do translation-info.sh.

    #67471
    Member
    marcelocripe
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    I suggest including “volunteer”(“voluntários”), otherwise someone might think it’s a paid job.
    Eu sugiro incluir “volunteer” (“voluntários”), caso contrário alguém pode pensar que seja um trabalho remunerado.

    Original:
    “Join antiX translation team,”

    Suggestion:
    “Join the team of antiX volunteer translators,”
    “Junte-se à equipe de tradutores voluntários do antiX,”

    Original:
    “antiX is not translated to your favourite language yet?”

    Suggestion: “totally” or “fully”
    “AntiX is not fully translated into your language yet?”

    #67473
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    While we’re having this discussion about locales and languages, on many distributions, not just antiX, there is a tendency to install quite a few locale definitions. I understand that some people are multi-lingual and want to have several languages available, and it’s a GOOD THING to have them available, but it would be nice to have an easy-to-use tool available, either at installation time or a post installation configuration tool to quickly select the locales to KEEP, and remove the others.

    Typically, I only see a dialogue about locales if and only if the locales package gets an update, then I see the configuration step of the package updater updating a long list of locales; then I know that I have to pare them down (because they take quite a while when there are a couple dozen locales receiving updates). Therefore, a convenient tool to remove all except the locales I explicitly select would be a nice addition, even if it’s a future addition. Not many distributions offer a convenient tool.

    Brian Masinick

    #67482
    Member
    Wallon
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    It is not easy to recruit new translators.

    I remember that it was Robin, Marcelocripe and Anticapitalista who recommended me to register on Transifex to translate texts into French. It must be said that I often came back to the antiX site to point out that it worked well in English but that it didn’t work well in French. I was immediately spotted on the forum!
    The problem is that I was afraid because I knew nothing about Linux programs and how to use Transifex.

    When I want to introduce antiX to my colleagues or friends or family, I am always asked the question “Do you make a lot of money? I say no, I do it for free. People say that I am wasting my time and that it is useless.

    So you have to find people who like Linux, who are courageous, curious and willing to give their time to translate texts.

    Linux is a spirit of sharing and freedom that is often rejected by our society. In my example, at the office, the big boss asked me not to talk about Linux any more, even with the IT people who work as subcontractors for the maintenance of our servers and computers.

    For me, all initiatives are good to find new translators.

    #67483
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    @Wallon: I agree with you.

    Most people who live near me wouldn’t even know what I was talking about if I mentioned Linux or antiX; my wife calls it “watching codes” on the screen!

    It’s definitely not for everyone but it’s very worthwhile for those who don’t want to buy expensive equipment!

    Brian Masinick

    #67502
    Member
    Robin
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    Version update to 0.4

    The script is crafted to deal with four significant character language identifiers (e.g. pt_BR) as well as with two character language identifiers (e.g. fr) now.

    Language template file (.pot) has got developer notes, and a first translation example is present for both, the script and the advanced pdf information file, already: Brasilian Portuguese (Thanks, Marcelo! Your suggestion »volunteer« is included also) The eloquence of speach in the texts should be checked by an English native speaker still, this goes also for Marcelos question whether better to use »totally« or »fully« here, I can’t decide.

    please allow the user to copy the GUI texts from translation-info.sh

    This is not implemented yet, I’d like to see the two links clickable, so they will open in browser but didn’t manage to bewitch yad to be obedient. When using other options of yad text appears within a cruel white edit box only instead, and the links are not clickable still. Anybody around who has an idea how to fix this while keeping an halfway appealing design?

    Therefore, a convenient tool to remove all except the locales I explicitly select would be a nice addition, even if it’s a future addition. Not many distributions offer a convenient tool.

    I support this proposal, this looks really useful. But it addresses another subject. This script here is meant for people not using antiX in English language by default, selecting “their” language from F2 live boot menu and then bump on an English antiX desktop anyway. They feel like duped if no explanation is given for this. And if we inform them about the problem, we can as well give them some advice how they can remedy this circumstance, so it will get fixed the sooner.

    at the office, the big boss asked me not to talk about Linux any more, even with the IT people who work as subcontractors for the maintenance of our servers and computers.

    Do you know what is the reason? Probably he has learned everything on PCs with Microsoft products installed only, and now he fears the transition to something else. He is simply afraid of LiMuX. I am sure his IT people are talking the hind leg off a donkey about this to him already, so he don’t want to hear it anymore. Once used to Microsoft products people cultivate their addiction to this OS and will never accept any alternatives. But this is another thread…

    The screenshots show the Brasilian Portuguese language user interface and what you see after clicking on »More information«, also in pt_BR here.

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