Question: Are these all the TYPES of boot problems?

Forum Forums New users New Users and General Questions Question: Are these all the TYPES of boot problems?

  • This topic has 10 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated Mar 3-1:22 am by rokytnji.
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  • #134980
    Member
    stevesr0

      Hi all,

      There are many posts on boot related problems. These are often complicated to resolve. Part of the difficulty might be in understanding what sort of problem the poster has.

      Over the years, I have experienced the following categories of boot problems. It seems to me that there is usually a category specific approach to solving these problems.

      I am interested in whether others agree that this is a useful and complete categorization or would suggest modifications.

      Categories:

      1. Push power button and nothing happens.

      2. Boots to a blinking command line.

      3. Boots to grub rescue screen.

      4. Boots to undesired OS.

      5. Boots to grub menu missing desired OS menu option.

      6. Boots to a command prompt, but doesn’t recognize user identity (including root).

      7. L-O-O-O-N-G delay in boot time.

      Thanks for all comments.

      #134984
      Forum Admin
      rokytnji

        Got NUC box that beeps like 4 or 5 times when you hit the power button. Intel is no help in their trouble-shooting section. Just basically says the box is toast.
        Either replace ram, motherboard. Did the ram change. No change. Still beeps.

        Dropped my Dell E4310 testing box. Keyboard is now acting like numbers lock is always on. Can’t log in.
        Don’t matter much. Hard drive is unplugged probably from the drop.

        I’ve had to replace cmos batteries on the Shop Dell T3400 Desktop . Same on the IBM Tower I had in the shop before that.
        Changed CPU paste. LED Screen ribbon. On my Panasonic CF-48 when I ran it.
        It still would run hot.

        This esp requirement for booting threw me for loop for awhile. So I try and avoid gpt partitioning when I can.
        Chromebook required esp though. I guess the MR. Chromebox firmware stub requires that.

        Installing and booting has gotten more complicated .
        I think operating system agendas . Like the the one you pay for.
        Are mostly to blame. Newer systems are coming with switches .
        Like installing linux inside of Windows 11 as a after thought.
        We don’t want you to own your gear.

        Lastly. My 1st run installs I am still learning.
        It don’t bother me to start over.
        It is how I learn. Hands on.
        So we gotta work around that mindset.
        Which makes things difficult.

        Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
        I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute off it.
        Motorcycle racing is rocket science.

        Linux Registered User # 475019
        How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

        #135010
        Member
        stevesr0

          Replying to my own OP.

          I think many type #5 problems involve properly linking the boot settings in the BIOS, the F12 Boot options, the items in the GRUB menu and the choices in the efibootmgr output.

          For example, on one UEFI system (a Lenovo YOGA), I have the following:

          efibootmgr:

          BootCurrent: 0003
          Timeout: 2 seconds
          BootOrder: 0003,0019,0002,0000,0018,0001,0016,0017,001A
          Boot0000* Windows Boot Manager
          Boot0001* antiX16
          Boot0002* antiX21
          Boot0003* MX21
          Boot0010  Setup
          Boot0011  Boot Menu
          Boot0012  Diagnostic Splash Screen
          Boot0013  Lenovo Diagnostics
          Boot0014  Rescue and Recovery
          Boot0015  Startup Interrupt Menu
          Boot0016* USB CD
          Boot0017* USB FDD
          Boot0018* ATA HDD0
          Boot0019* USB HDD
          Boot001A* PCI LAN

          But the GRUB Menu is

          antiX21
          advanced options
          memory test
          Windows

          And the F12 boot selection menu is

          MX21
          antix21
          Windows
          ATA HDD0
          antix16
          PCI LAN
              LAN IPV4
              LAN IPV6

          On that system, I haven’t seen a line that allows changes to the boot order. (I got antiX21 to boot only by moving MX21 ahead of the antiX21 choice in the boot order using the F12 key at boot?!)

          On my other UEFI system, I have the following

          efibootmgr:

          BootCurrent: 0004
          Timeout: 1 seconds
          BootOrder: 0004,0001,0000,0005,0003,0002
          Boot0000* MX22
          Boot0001* antiX22 
          Boot0002* antiX19
          Boot0003* UEFI OS
          Boot0004* antix-22-runit
          Boot0005* Windows Boot Manager

          GRUB Menu:

          antiX-runit22-->23
          Advanced options for antiX22-->23
          Memory Test (64-bit UEFI)
          antiX-19.2
          Advanced options for antiX-19
          Windows Boot Manager
          UEFI Firmware Settings

          (I will add the BIOS and F12 items after my next reboot of this machine.)

          • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by stevesr0.
          #135037
          Moderator
          Brian Masinick

            @stevesr0 it is the BootOrder: entries that affect which entries can be “seen” on the boot menus.

            That huge one is questionable unless you really think you will need to access them at some point.
            Accessing the UEFI Firmware settings is pretty important; as far as those LAN entries, you tell me;
            do you ever access them? If not, those are good to remove from the BootOrder: list and if you do
            not ever anticipate using them, get rid of them, but you can always write down their entries in
            your own private log book, should you ever come up with a reason to actually use them.

            Diagnostic Splash Screen? Does it provide any value?
            regarding the other diagnostics; again it may be worth saving the information, but I’m not sure
            if it needs to be in the every day menu; perhaps ARCHIVING the entries that bring these entries
            up, maybe on a removable drive (Flash Drive?) could be a good idea just in case you really DO
            need them; pop in the flash drive and copy the entries to the appropriate file, update-grub
            and they are back. Just my personal thoughts; you can leave it all there if getting rid
            of them makes you uncomfortable.

            --
            Brian Masinick

            #135246
            Forum Admin
            rokytnji

              Here is a good one. AntiX 23.1 runit runs and boots OK after install. From cold power button startup to desktop.

              Pick reboot while in antiX. Laptop shuts down OK. Reboots. Product logo comes up. After that. No input is picked up < esc, F2, F12. No further boot to grub menu. Giving up for the night.

              Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
              I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute off it.
              Motorcycle racing is rocket science.

              Linux Registered User # 475019
              How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

              #135249
              Member
              stevesr0

                Hi rokytnji,

                Does that occur consistently or just sometimes?

                #135314
                Member
                Robin

                  8.) Boots to syslinux, then, after going on, it is stuck with erratic panic messages paging down the screen, stopping at some time without any further visible progress, accepting keys but no reaction, waiting for hard reset. Sometimes it still boots up to desktop after a long pause of obviously pleasurable pondering after this. (seen on antiX 19 on AMD athlon 2000 and athlon XP; never sorted it out, went back to 17.4.1 instead)

                  9.) Error message after start of boot process: syslinux not found (even if present and USB device fully functional, shasum checked, running fine on another PC. Last seen on antiX 19; never sorted it out, skipped 19 and moved on from 17.4.1 to 21/22 directly.)

                  10.) Boots to desktop, but comes merely up with mostly unusable blurry screen. No way to change resolution, wrong res for monitor. Mouse reacts lazy. This was on 19 also, 32bit notebook with nvidia. Couldn’t resolve it other than downgrading the xorg to 17.4.1 version in antiX 19 to make proprietary nvidia drivers run. Nvidia tried to brick my device by keeping the Xorg devs from updating the needed proprietary nvidia blob they have to put into each next version to make it work, simply by not supplying such a blob for the next Xorg version. (That’s why you should never buy something relying on proprietary stuff) Later it turned out, the nouveau driver was still in a state not properly supporting the graphics card, so there was literally no usable video driver. Only in antiX 21/22 it started working again, once the linux kernel got matching nouveau driver updates.

                  Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

                  #135323
                  Forum Admin
                  rokytnji

                    Just checked again. It happens consistently. Checked bios again. Played with boot options like usb hard drive and usb floppy drive boot options moving them down.

                    No change though. It is weird. Just a intel logo screen showing lenovo off to the side and after that nothing.

                    Might mess with quick boot settings next. Long boot I think runs a diagnostics.

                    Definite hardware issue somehow in bios settings is all I can figure. Got some searching to do.

                    Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
                    I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute off it.
                    Motorcycle racing is rocket science.

                    Linux Registered User # 475019
                    How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

                    #135326
                    Member
                    Robin

                      Just a intel logo screen showing lenovo off to the side and after that nothing.

                      Check RAM modules. Remove them one by one, then swap them. Check their connectors etc. Disconnect any harddrives, SSD etc, also CD/DVD. Check secondary-side supply voltages.

                      Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

                      #135343
                      Moderator
                      Brian Masinick

                        Hey guys, if you want a REAL challenge AND possibly a headache, the Acer Aspire 5 A515-55 that I owned a few years ago was a REAL GEM!

                        Here was the problem: to this day, it was probably the fastest computer I ever owned. The NVME SSD (non volatile memory solid state drive) on that system was quite responsive, as was the Intel Core i5 11th gen processor. We’re now up to 13th gen in the i3, i5, and i7 lines, and they’ve added an i9, so the high end equipment that has become available since 2020 is quite powerful; this year’s models are beyond what I want to spend, but 1-2 years from now I may get fortunate and locate a well managed unit that someone chooses to sell.

                        Meanwhile the AMD 5 series 5500U is much more than adequate, just not quite as snappy has that old Acer.

                        The HUGE PROBLEM with the Acer was the BIOS. If you’re getting a Chromebook that you’ll never mess with, I think their gear provides good price/performance, BUT if you buy a unit that comes preinstalled with Windows 10 or 11 like I did, it’s an ordeal to adjust it. The trick is to alter BIOS settings; I think they had some odd SCSI/SATA setting defaulted; I think AHCI is what needs to be enabled, but maybe I have it all wrong; just manipulating that system interface was the most challenging I’ve ever faced! Even typing an OCTAL boot code into an old minicomputer at address 200 was easier than the Acer EFI/BIOS, at least for me!

                        Putting a very short collection of zeros and ones into a 16-bit machine console, though not something you’d want to do every day, sure was a fun project! I was installing a disk device driver onto the machine; some low level hardware/software engineers wrote a specialized driver to get high capacity drives from that era (big, but SMALL capacity in THIS era!) functional on desktop and tower sized machines. It worked, but I’m sure it was only for a short term project! Who would want those beasts, other than in an enclosed server room is beyond me, but when it’s AT&T and they are spending MONEY you don’t ever say NO to them! 🙂

                        --
                        Brian Masinick

                        #135357
                        Forum Admin
                        rokytnji

                          That acer sounds like a 64 bit system with 32 bit bios. They are legendary trying to get linux to boot on them. Acer was one brand for making those.

                          https://www.phoronix.com/news/MTU1NjE

                          @Robin

                          I am going to procrastinate on pulling all the hardware. Kinda afeared I might break something after a whole day of repairing.
                          Maybe with use reboot will fix itself. Got a lot on my plate coming this summer also. Wife is talking about retiring.
                          It is a good suggestion though, I touched them all. Everything you mentioned was transferred by me from the T430.

                          Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
                          I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute off it.
                          Motorcycle racing is rocket science.

                          Linux Registered User # 475019
                          How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

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