Removing libelogind0 (testers needed)

Forum Forums Official Releases antiX-21/22 “Grup Yorum” Removing libelogind0 (testers needed)

  • This topic has 32 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated Nov 24-6:02 pm by Xecure.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 33 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #70992
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista

      antiX-21 ships with elogind and libelogind0 on the iso.
      For probably most users, this is just fine and it enables users to install various desktop-environments as they please without issue.

      Users can easily replace elogind for consolekit or seatd and remove libelogind0.
      Here’s how on antiX-21-full.

      1. Temporarily, add dev to the antix.list in /etc/apt/sources.list.d

      deb http://repo.antixlinux.com/bullseye bullseye main nonfree nosystemd dev NO LONGER NECESSARY TO DO THIS STEP

      2. sudo apt update && sudo apt dist-upgrade

      Do not blindly press Enter. Check that nothing important will be removed.

      3. sudo apt install seatd

      4. Now we can remove elogind. Check nothing important gets removed. This will also install libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0

      sudo apt purge *elogind*

      5. Check that all is working especially printing, scanning (assuming it all worked before making the changes above).
      Also check mounting usb devices, bluetooth etc

      Note: You should be able to install xfce4 and lxde without libelogind0
      You will not be able to do install MATE, KDE/plasma, Gnome (shudder) without libelogind0 getting installed.
      Many apps in Debian are packaged (IMO wrongly) with libsystemd0/libelogind0 as a hard dependency so installing apps may also bring libelogind0 back.
      I’m not going to rebuild all of Debian’s packages, only a select few.

      Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

      antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

      #71007
      Member
      olsztyn

        You will not be able to do install MATE, KDE/plasma, Gnome (shudder) without libelogind0 getting installed.
        Many apps in Debian are packaged (IMO wrongly) with libsystemd0/libelogind0 as a hard dependency so installing apps may also bring libelogind0 back.
        I’m not going to rebuild all of Debian’s packages, only a select few.

        I am planning to test this shortly after I fly back home tomorrow.
        However I would appreciate if someone explains what we are trying to accomplish by this, except cleaning up a few dependencies and libs…
        Also please let me know if my understanding of impact is correct:
        – Which major apps are known to install the said *elogind*.
        – Considering some major apps install *elogind* during their installation, then if they are installed after the above cleanup then subsequent running the above purge *elogind* will bring antiX back to ‘clean’ state. If this is true, then why a need for rebuilding some Debian packages to not include *elogind*? Is it not simpler to run the above purge instead for those interested, keeping packages intact? This is just for my understanding…
        Thanks and regards…

        • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by olsztyn.

        Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
        http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

        #71010
        Forum Admin
        anticapitalista

          Debian packagers build their debs mostly (if not exclusively) with libsystemd0 (and libsystemd-dev) as a dependency.
          Debian now has libelogind0 as a replacement for libsystemd0 and libelogind-dev for libsystemd-dev.

          Many deb packages do not need systemd, libsystemd0, libsystend-dev (or elogind, libelogind0, libelogind-dev).
          Also, you cannot simply purge elogind as it will take out those apps which have elogind hard-coded as a dependency.
          Purging libelogind0 will take out all of X.

          This is experimental so do not do this if you need your copy of antiX-21 working. Use a test partition or test usb.

          I’m running antiX-21 on my laptop and desktop in a variety of ways (frugal/installed, runit/sysvinit, sid/testing/bullseye)
          with these changes. No elogind/systemd, libelogind0/libsystemd0.
          No crashes, everything I use is working. But there are many things I cannot test because I don’t have them eg printing, scanning, Teams/zoom.

          Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

          antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

          #71014
          Member
          ModdIt

            Just got a bew USB stick today, will give it a try tomorrow,
            Cups, Brother MFC6710 Drivers, Brother scabnner driver.
            Can try and find time to test zoom together with my daughter, it is an Essential.
            Demanded by University. Hope she is not too busy..

            • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by ModdIt.
            #71019
            Forum Admin
            anticapitalista

              – Which major apps are known to install the said *elogind*.
              – Considering some major apps install *elogind* during their installation, then if they are installed after the above cleanup then subsequent running the above purge *elogind* will bring antiX back to ‘clean’ state. If this is true, then why a need for rebuilding some Debian packages to not include *elogind*? Is it not simpler to run the above purge instead for those interested, keeping packages intact? This is just for my understanding…
              Thanks and regards…

              Here are a few examples.

              1. vlc is a popular video player. It will re-install libelogind0 (not a big issue really, unless one is seeking purity).

              apt install vlc
              Reading package lists... Done
              Building dependency tree... Done
              Reading state information... Done
              The following additional packages will be installed:
                libelogind0 libopenmpt-modplug1 libvlc-bin libvlc5 libvlccore9 vlc-bin vlc-data vlc-plugin-base vlc-plugin-qt vlc-plugin-video-output
              Suggested packages:
                vlc-plugin-fluidsynth vlc-plugin-jack vlc-plugin-svg libdvdcss2
              Recommended packages:
                libproxy-tools vlc-l10n vlc-plugin-access-extra vlc-plugin-notify vlc-plugin-samba vlc-plugin-skins2 vlc-plugin-video-splitter
                vlc-plugin-visualization
              The following NEW packages will be installed:
                libelogind0 libopenmpt-modplug1 libvlc-bin libvlc5 libvlccore9 vlc vlc-bin vlc-data vlc-plugin-base vlc-plugin-qt vlc-plugin-video-output
              0 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
              Need to get 6,283 kB of archives.
              After this operation, 22.0 MB of additional disk space will be used.
              Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
              Abort.

              2. MATE desktop – note it also installs libelogind0

              apt install mate-desktop-environment
              Reading package lists... Done
              Building dependency tree... Done
              Reading state information... Done
              The following additional packages will be installed:
                accountsservice at-spi2-core bubblewrap caja caja-common debian-mate-default-settings gir1.2-matemenu-2.0 gtk-update-icon-cache gvfs gvfs-backends
                gvfs-common gvfs-daemons gvfs-libs libaccountsservice0 libavahi-glib1 libcaja-extension1 libcanberra-gtk3-0 libelogind0 libexempi8 libgail-3-0
                libgck-1-0 libgcr-base-3-1 libgdata-common libgdata22 libgoa-1.0-0b libgoa-1.0-common libgtk-layer-shell0 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18
                libmanette-0.2-0 libmarco-private2 libmate-desktop-2-17 libmate-menu2 libmate-slab0 libmate-window-settings1 libmatekbd-common libmatekbd4
                libmatemixer-common libmatemixer0 libmateweather-common libmateweather1 librda-common librda0 libudisks2-0 libvte-2.91-0 libvte-2.91-common
                libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37 libwpe-1.0-1 libwpebackend-fdo-1.0-1 libxpresent1 marco marco-common mate-control-center mate-control-center-common
                mate-desktop mate-desktop-common mate-desktop-environment-core mate-icon-theme mate-menus mate-panel mate-panel-common mate-polkit
                mate-polkit-common mate-session-manager mate-settings-daemon mate-settings-daemon-common mate-terminal mate-terminal-common mate-themes menu-xdg
                udisks2 xdg-dbus-proxy zenity zenity-common
              Suggested packages:
                gnome-control-center engrampa gstreamer1.0-tools meld bluez-obexd samba-common network-manager-gnome x-www-browser | firefox
                mate-desktop-environment-extras libblockdev-mdraid2 mdadm nilfs-tools reiserfsprogs udftools udisks2-bcache udisks2-btrfs udisks2-lvm2 udisks2-zram
              Recommended packages:
                default-logind | logind gnome-keyring libcanberra-gtk3-module xdg-desktop-portal-gtk gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad mate-user-guide atril desktop-base
                | ubuntu-mate-wallpapers engrampa eom ffmpegthumbnailer libcanberra-pulse mate-backgrounds | ubuntu-mate-wallpapers mate-calc
                mate-applet-brisk-menu mate-applets mate-media mate-notification-daemon mate-power-manager mate-screensaver mate-system-monitor mate-utils pluma
                exfat-utils
              The following NEW packages will be installed:
                accountsservice at-spi2-core bubblewrap caja caja-common debian-mate-default-settings gir1.2-matemenu-2.0 gtk-update-icon-cache gvfs gvfs-backends
                gvfs-common gvfs-daemons gvfs-libs libaccountsservice0 libavahi-glib1 libcaja-extension1 libcanberra-gtk3-0 libelogind0 libexempi8 libgail-3-0
                libgck-1-0 libgcr-base-3-1 libgdata-common libgdata22 libgoa-1.0-0b libgoa-1.0-common libgtk-layer-shell0 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18
                libmanette-0.2-0 libmarco-private2 libmate-desktop-2-17 libmate-menu2 libmate-slab0 libmate-window-settings1 libmatekbd-common libmatekbd4
                libmatemixer-common libmatemixer0 libmateweather-common libmateweather1 librda-common librda0 libudisks2-0 libvte-2.91-0 libvte-2.91-common
                libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37 libwpe-1.0-1 libwpebackend-fdo-1.0-1 libxpresent1 marco marco-common mate-control-center mate-control-center-common
                mate-desktop mate-desktop-common mate-desktop-environment mate-desktop-environment-core mate-icon-theme mate-menus mate-panel mate-panel-common
                mate-polkit mate-polkit-common mate-session-manager mate-settings-daemon mate-settings-daemon-common mate-terminal mate-terminal-common mate-themes
                menu-xdg udisks2 xdg-dbus-proxy zenity zenity-common
              0 upgraded, 74 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
              Need to get 64.4 MB of archives.
              After this operation, 328 MB of additional disk space will be used.
              Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
              Abort.

              3. Installing plasma(KDE) brings in elogind as well.

              apt install plasma-desktop
              Reading package lists... Done
              Building dependency tree... Done
              Reading state information... Done
              The following additional packages will be installed:
                accountsservice breeze breeze-cursor-theme breeze-icon-theme drkonqi elogind frameworkintegration hwdata kactivitymanagerd kde-cli-tools
                kde-cli-tools-data kde-style-breeze kded5 kinit kio kpackagetool5 ktexteditor-data kwayland-data kwin-common kwin-data kwin-style-breeze
                libaccounts-glib0 libaccounts-qt5-1 libaccountsservice0 libappstream4 libappstreamqt2 libcolorcorrect5 libdbusmenu-qt5-2 libdmtx0b libeditorconfig0
                libelogind0 libfam0 libgit2-1.1 libgps28 libhttp-parser2.9 libkaccounts2 libkdecorations2-5v5 libkdecorations2private7 libkf5activities5
                libkf5activitiesstats1 libkf5archive5 libkf5attica5 libkf5auth-data libkf5auth5 libkf5authcore5 libkf5baloo5 libkf5balooengine5
                libkf5bookmarks-data libkf5bookmarks5 libkf5calendarevents5 libkf5codecs-data libkf5codecs5 libkf5completion-data libkf5completion5
                libkf5config-bin libkf5config-data libkf5configcore5 libkf5configgui5 libkf5configwidgets-data libkf5configwidgets5 libkf5coreaddons-data
                libkf5coreaddons5 libkf5crash5 libkf5dbusaddons-data libkf5dbusaddons5 libkf5declarative-data libkf5declarative5 libkf5doctools5
                libkf5filemetadata-data libkf5filemetadata3 libkf5globalaccel-bin libkf5globalaccel-data libkf5globalaccel5 libkf5globalaccelprivate5
                libkf5guiaddons5 libkf5holidays-data libkf5holidays5 libkf5i18n-data libkf5i18n5 libkf5iconthemes-data libkf5iconthemes5 libkf5idletime5
                libkf5itemmodels5 libkf5itemviews-data libkf5itemviews5 libkf5jobwidgets-data libkf5jobwidgets5 libkf5kcmutils-data libkf5kcmutils5
                libkf5kdelibs4support-data libkf5kdelibs4support5 libkf5kiocore5 libkf5kiofilewidgets5 libkf5kiogui5 libkf5kiontlm5 libkf5kiowidgets5
                libkf5kirigami2-5 libkf5networkmanagerqt6 libkf5newstuff-data libkf5newstuff5 libkf5newstuffcore5 libkf5notifications-data libkf5notifications5
                libkf5notifyconfig-data libkf5notifyconfig5 libkf5package-data libkf5package5 libkf5parts-data libkf5parts5 libkf5people-data libkf5people5
                libkf5peoplebackend5 libkf5peoplewidgets5 libkf5plasma5 libkf5plasmaquick5 libkf5prison5 libkf5pty-data libkf5pty5 libkf5quickaddons5 libkf5runner5
                libkf5screen-bin libkf5screen7 libkf5service-bin libkf5service-data libkf5service5 libkf5solid5 libkf5solid5-data libkf5sonnet5-data
                libkf5sonnetcore5 libkf5sonnetui5 libkf5style5 libkf5su-bin libkf5su-data libkf5su5 libkf5syntaxhighlighting-data libkf5syntaxhighlighting5
                libkf5sysguard-data libkf5texteditor-bin libkf5texteditor5 libkf5textwidgets-data libkf5textwidgets5 libkf5threadweaver5 libkf5wallet-bin
                libkf5wallet-data libkf5wallet5 libkf5waylandclient5 libkf5waylandserver5 libkf5widgetsaddons-data libkf5widgetsaddons5 libkf5xmlgui-data
                libkf5xmlgui5 libkfontinst5 libkfontinstui5 libkscreenlocker5 libksgrd9 libksysguardformatter1 libksysguardsensorfaces1 libksysguardsensors1
                libkuserfeedbackcore1 libkwalletbackend5-5 libkwaylandserver5 libkwin4-effect-builtins1 libkwineffects12a libkwinglutils12 libkwinxrenderutils12
                libkworkspace5-5 libnotificationmanager1 libopenmpt-modplug1 libpackagekitqt5-1 libpam-elogind libphonon4qt5-4 libphonon4qt5-data libpipewire-0.3-0
                libplasma-geolocation-interface5 libpolkit-qt5-1-1 libprocesscore9 libprocessui9 libqalculate20 libqalculate20-data libqrencode4 libqt5multimedia5
                libqt5multimediaquick5 libqt5quickcontrols2-5 libqt5quicktemplates2-5 libqt5texttospeech5 libqt5waylandclient5 libqt5webengine-data
                libqt5webenginecore5 libqt5webenginewidgets5 libscim8v5 libsignon-qt5-1 libspa-0.2-modules libstemmer0d libtaskmanager6abi1 libudisks2-0 libvlc5
                libvlccore9 libweather-ion7 libxcb-damage0 libxcb-record0 milou oxygen-sounds phonon4qt5 phonon4qt5-backend-vlc plasma-desktop-data
                plasma-framework plasma-integration plasma-workspace plasma-workspace-data polkit-kde-agent-1 qdbus-qt5 qml-module-org-kde-draganddrop
                qml-module-org-kde-kconfig qml-module-org-kde-kcoreaddons qml-module-org-kde-kholidays qml-module-org-kde-kirigami2
                qml-module-org-kde-kquickcontrols qml-module-org-kde-kquickcontrolsaddons qml-module-org-kde-ksysguard qml-module-org-kde-kwindowsystem
                qml-module-org-kde-prison qml-module-org-kde-qqc2desktopstyle qml-module-org-kde-quickcharts qml-module-org-kde-solid
                qml-module-org-kde-userfeedback qml-module-qt-labs-folderlistmodel qml-module-qt-labs-settings qml-module-qtgraphicaleffects
                qml-module-qtmultimedia qml-module-qtqml qml-module-qtqml-models2 qml-module-qtquick-controls qml-module-qtquick-controls2
                qml-module-qtquick-dialogs qml-module-qtquick-layouts qml-module-qtquick-privatewidgets qml-module-qtquick-templates2 qml-module-qtquick-window2
                qml-module-qtquick2 udisks2 vlc-data vlc-plugin-base vlc-plugin-video-output
              Suggested packages:
                gnome-control-center orion-gtk-theme kwin-addons fam gpsd packagekit phonon4qt5-backend-gstreamer libblockdev-mdraid2 mdadm nilfs-tools
                reiserfsprogs udftools udisks2-bcache udisks2-btrfs udisks2-lvm2 udisks2-zram libdvdcss2
              Recommended packages:
                kde-style-qtcurve libqt5multimedia5-plugins qml-module-qtquick-virtualkeyboard kaccounts-providers kactivities-bin keditbookmarks
                libkf5dbusaddons-bin kpackagelauncherqml libkf5filemetadata-bin libkf5iconthemes-bin kwayland-integration libkf5kdelibs4support5-bin
                qml-module-org-kde-newstuff libkf5parts-plugins qml-module-org-kde-runnermodel media-player-info sonnet-plugins ktexteditor-katepart
                libkf5xmlgui-bin kde-config-screenlocker kuserfeedback-doc pipewire qtspeech5-speechd-plugin | qtspeech5-flite-plugin libvlc-bin libproxy-tools
                bluedevil breeze-gtk-theme fonts-hack fonts-noto kde-config-gtk-style kde-config-sddm kde-style-oxygen-qt5 kgamma5 khelpcenter khotkeys kinfocenter
                kio-extras kmenuedit kscreen ksshaskpass ksysguard kwin-x11 | kwin kwrited libpam-kwallet5 plasma-discover plasma-disks plasma-pa powerdevil
                systemsettings qml-module-org-kde-activities fonts-noto-hinted ksysguardd exfat-utils
              The following NEW packages will be installed:
                accountsservice breeze breeze-cursor-theme breeze-icon-theme drkonqi elogind frameworkintegration hwdata kactivitymanagerd kde-cli-tools
                kde-cli-tools-data kde-style-breeze kded5 kinit kio kpackagetool5 ktexteditor-data kwayland-data kwin-common kwin-data kwin-style-breeze
                libaccounts-glib0 libaccounts-qt5-1 libaccountsservice0 libappstream4 libappstreamqt2 libcolorcorrect5 libdbusmenu-qt5-2 libdmtx0b libeditorconfig0
                libelogind0 libfam0 libgit2-1.1 libgps28 libhttp-parser2.9 libkaccounts2 libkdecorations2-5v5 libkdecorations2private7 libkf5activities5
                libkf5activitiesstats1 libkf5archive5 libkf5attica5 libkf5auth-data libkf5auth5 libkf5authcore5 libkf5baloo5 libkf5balooengine5
                libkf5bookmarks-data libkf5bookmarks5 libkf5calendarevents5 libkf5codecs-data libkf5codecs5 libkf5completion-data libkf5completion5
                libkf5config-bin libkf5config-data libkf5configcore5 libkf5configgui5 libkf5configwidgets-data libkf5configwidgets5 libkf5coreaddons-data
                libkf5coreaddons5 libkf5crash5 libkf5dbusaddons-data libkf5dbusaddons5 libkf5declarative-data libkf5declarative5 libkf5doctools5
                libkf5filemetadata-data libkf5filemetadata3 libkf5globalaccel-bin libkf5globalaccel-data libkf5globalaccel5 libkf5globalaccelprivate5
                libkf5guiaddons5 libkf5holidays-data libkf5holidays5 libkf5i18n-data libkf5i18n5 libkf5iconthemes-data libkf5iconthemes5 libkf5idletime5
                libkf5itemmodels5 libkf5itemviews-data libkf5itemviews5 libkf5jobwidgets-data libkf5jobwidgets5 libkf5kcmutils-data libkf5kcmutils5
                libkf5kdelibs4support-data libkf5kdelibs4support5 libkf5kiocore5 libkf5kiofilewidgets5 libkf5kiogui5 libkf5kiontlm5 libkf5kiowidgets5
                libkf5kirigami2-5 libkf5networkmanagerqt6 libkf5newstuff-data libkf5newstuff5 libkf5newstuffcore5 libkf5notifications-data libkf5notifications5
                libkf5notifyconfig-data libkf5notifyconfig5 libkf5package-data libkf5package5 libkf5parts-data libkf5parts5 libkf5people-data libkf5people5
                libkf5peoplebackend5 libkf5peoplewidgets5 libkf5plasma5 libkf5plasmaquick5 libkf5prison5 libkf5pty-data libkf5pty5 libkf5quickaddons5 libkf5runner5
                libkf5screen-bin libkf5screen7 libkf5service-bin libkf5service-data libkf5service5 libkf5solid5 libkf5solid5-data libkf5sonnet5-data
                libkf5sonnetcore5 libkf5sonnetui5 libkf5style5 libkf5su-bin libkf5su-data libkf5su5 libkf5syntaxhighlighting-data libkf5syntaxhighlighting5
                libkf5sysguard-data libkf5texteditor-bin libkf5texteditor5 libkf5textwidgets-data libkf5textwidgets5 libkf5threadweaver5 libkf5wallet-bin
                libkf5wallet-data libkf5wallet5 libkf5waylandclient5 libkf5waylandserver5 libkf5widgetsaddons-data libkf5widgetsaddons5 libkf5xmlgui-data
                libkf5xmlgui5 libkfontinst5 libkfontinstui5 libkscreenlocker5 libksgrd9 libksysguardformatter1 libksysguardsensorfaces1 libksysguardsensors1
                libkuserfeedbackcore1 libkwalletbackend5-5 libkwaylandserver5 libkwin4-effect-builtins1 libkwineffects12a libkwinglutils12 libkwinxrenderutils12
                libkworkspace5-5 libnotificationmanager1 libopenmpt-modplug1 libpackagekitqt5-1 libpam-elogind libphonon4qt5-4 libphonon4qt5-data libpipewire-0.3-0
                libplasma-geolocation-interface5 libpolkit-qt5-1-1 libprocesscore9 libprocessui9 libqalculate20 libqalculate20-data libqrencode4 libqt5multimedia5
                libqt5multimediaquick5 libqt5quickcontrols2-5 libqt5quicktemplates2-5 libqt5texttospeech5 libqt5waylandclient5 libqt5webengine-data
                libqt5webenginecore5 libqt5webenginewidgets5 libscim8v5 libsignon-qt5-1 libspa-0.2-modules libstemmer0d libtaskmanager6abi1 libudisks2-0 libvlc5
                libvlccore9 libweather-ion7 libxcb-damage0 libxcb-record0 milou oxygen-sounds phonon4qt5 phonon4qt5-backend-vlc plasma-desktop plasma-desktop-data
                plasma-framework plasma-integration plasma-workspace plasma-workspace-data polkit-kde-agent-1 qdbus-qt5 qml-module-org-kde-draganddrop
                qml-module-org-kde-kconfig qml-module-org-kde-kcoreaddons qml-module-org-kde-kholidays qml-module-org-kde-kirigami2
                qml-module-org-kde-kquickcontrols qml-module-org-kde-kquickcontrolsaddons qml-module-org-kde-ksysguard qml-module-org-kde-kwindowsystem
                qml-module-org-kde-prison qml-module-org-kde-qqc2desktopstyle qml-module-org-kde-quickcharts qml-module-org-kde-solid
                qml-module-org-kde-userfeedback qml-module-qt-labs-folderlistmodel qml-module-qt-labs-settings qml-module-qtgraphicaleffects
                qml-module-qtmultimedia qml-module-qtqml qml-module-qtqml-models2 qml-module-qtquick-controls qml-module-qtquick-controls2
                qml-module-qtquick-dialogs qml-module-qtquick-layouts qml-module-qtquick-privatewidgets qml-module-qtquick-templates2 qml-module-qtquick-window2
                qml-module-qtquick2 udisks2 vlc-data vlc-plugin-base vlc-plugin-video-output
              0 upgraded, 244 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
              Need to get 140 MB of archives.
              After this operation, 520 MB of additional disk space will be used.
              Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
              Abort.

              4. lxqt also brings in elogind

              apt install lxqt
              Reading package lists... Done
              Building dependency tree... Done
              Reading state information... Done
              The following additional packages will be installed:
                desktop-base elogind featherpad fonts-quicksand kwayland-data libdbusmenu-qt5-2 libelogind0 libfm-qt8 libkf5idletime5 libkf5screen-bin
                libkf5screen7 libkf5solid5 libkf5solid5-data libkf5waylandclient5 liblxqt-globalkeys-ui0 liblxqt-globalkeys0 libmuparser2v5 libpam-elogind
                libpolkit-qt5-1-1 libpulsedsp libqtermwidget5-0 libstatgrab10 libsysstat-qt5-0 libutf8proc2 lximage-qt lxqt-about lxqt-admin lxqt-branding-debian
                lxqt-config lxqt-core lxqt-globalkeys lxqt-notificationd lxqt-openssh-askpass lxqt-panel lxqt-policykit lxqt-powermanagement lxqt-qtplugin
                lxqt-runner lxqt-session lxqt-sudo lxqt-system-theme lxqt-theme-debian pavucontrol-qt pcmanfm-qt pulseaudio pulseaudio-utils qterminal
                qtermwidget5-data qttranslations5-l10n upower
              Suggested packages:
                gnome | kde-standard | xfce4 | wmaker calibre compton-conf juffed nomacs obconf-qt qtpass qt5-style-kvantum shutter vokoscreen adwaita-qt
                faenza-icon-theme gnome-themes-standard cmst | network-manager-gnome synaptic feathernotes preload cdtool pavumeter pavucontrol paprefs
                avahi-daemon
              Recommended packages:
                plymouth-label featherpad-l10n libfm-qt-l10n kwayland-integration hwdata media-player-info fonts-hack lximage-qt-l10n qt5-image-formats-plugins
                audacious | clementine | qmmp cmst | nm-tray | network-manager-gnome | plasma-nm | wicd feathernotes gucharmap meteo-qt preload screengrab smplayer
                lxqt-about-l10n lxqt-admin-l10n lxqt-config-l10n system-config-printer xscreensaver lxqt-globalkeys-l10n lxqt-notificationd-l10n
                lxqt-openssh-askpass-l10n lxqt-panel-l10n qlipper lxqt-policykit-l10n lxqt-powermanagement-l10n lxqt-runner-l10n lxqt-session-l10n lxqt-sudo-l10n
                papirus-icon-theme | breeze-icon-theme | faenza-icon-theme | oxygen-icon-theme oxygen-icon-theme papirus-icon-theme xfwm4-theme-breeze
                pavucontrol-qt-l10n ffmpegthumbnailer gvfs-backends gvfs-fuse pcmanfm-qt-l10n rtkit dbus-user-session qterminal-l10n
              The following NEW packages will be installed:
                desktop-base elogind featherpad fonts-quicksand kwayland-data libdbusmenu-qt5-2 libelogind0 libfm-qt8 libkf5idletime5 libkf5screen-bin
                libkf5screen7 libkf5solid5 libkf5solid5-data libkf5waylandclient5 liblxqt-globalkeys-ui0 liblxqt-globalkeys0 libmuparser2v5 libpam-elogind
                libpolkit-qt5-1-1 libpulsedsp libqtermwidget5-0 libstatgrab10 libsysstat-qt5-0 libutf8proc2 lximage-qt lxqt lxqt-about lxqt-admin
                lxqt-branding-debian lxqt-config lxqt-core lxqt-globalkeys lxqt-notificationd lxqt-openssh-askpass lxqt-panel lxqt-policykit lxqt-powermanagement
                lxqt-qtplugin lxqt-runner lxqt-session lxqt-sudo lxqt-system-theme lxqt-theme-debian pavucontrol-qt pcmanfm-qt pulseaudio pulseaudio-utils
                qterminal qtermwidget5-data qttranslations5-l10n upower
              0 upgraded, 51 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
              Need to get 12.2 MB of archives.
              After this operation, 56.0 MB of additional disk space will be used.
              Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
              Abort.

              5. This is for xfce4 – no elogind, no libelogind0

              apt install xfce4
              Reading package lists... Done
              Building dependency tree... Done
              Reading state information... Done
              The following additional packages will be installed:
                exo-utils libgarcon-1-0 libgarcon-common libgarcon-gtk3-1-0 libkeybinder-3.0-0 libthunarx-3-0 libxfce4panel-2.0-4 libxfce4ui-2-0 libxfce4ui-utils
                libxfconf-0-3 libxpresent1 thunar thunar-data xfce4-appfinder xfce4-helpers xfce4-panel xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin xfce4-session xfce4-settings xfconf
                xfdesktop4 xfdesktop4-data xfwm4
              Suggested packages:
                thunar-archive-plugin thunar-media-tags-plugin gvfs-backends xfce4-goodies xfce4-power-manager fortunes-mod
              Recommended packages:
                gvfs policykit-1-gnome | polkit-1-auth-agent thunar-volman tumbler udisks2 desktop-base tango-icon-theme xfce4-notifyd xorg pavucontrol pulseaudio
                default-logind | logind light-locker systemd-sysv upower colord xiccd
              The following NEW packages will be installed:
                exo-utils libgarcon-1-0 libgarcon-common libgarcon-gtk3-1-0 libkeybinder-3.0-0 libthunarx-3-0 libxfce4panel-2.0-4 libxfce4ui-2-0 libxfce4ui-utils
                libxfconf-0-3 libxpresent1 thunar thunar-data xfce4 xfce4-appfinder xfce4-helpers xfce4-panel xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin xfce4-session xfce4-settings
                xfconf xfdesktop4 xfdesktop4-data xfwm4
              0 upgraded, 24 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
              Need to get 9,726 kB of archives.
              After this operation, 31.5 MB of additional disk space will be used.
              Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
              Abort.

              Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

              antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

              #71069
              Member
              olsztyn

                Thanks for the info…
                So I have performed conversion of one of the antiX 21 Runit live instances per the process outlined in the first post and initially tested with the following results:
                What works for me:
                – Network Connman 1.40/CMST 2021
                – Internet browsing
                – Audio/Video using SMPlayer including over local network
                – SMB/CIFS access to NAS
                – Printing using CUPS tested with two printers: HP Color LaserJet 4550N and Xerox Phaser 3635MFP
                – Youtube under browser playing Grup Yorum great ones: ‘Bella Ciao’ and ‘Zahit Bizi Tan Eyleme’, beautiful Russian song ‘Katyusha’ produced in DDR:
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acPvvv1gqGg
                And beautiful Greek song by Polish Greek Eleni:
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbGBw3R0OVM

                – SMTube playing Youtube video using MPV
                – Flip desktop from IceWM to DWM using Other Desktops–>DWM works
                – LibreOffice 7
                – FreeOffice 2021

                What does not work for me so far:
                – Synaptic does not start

                In a word so far everything I tested works except Synaptic. Other minor malfunctioning that existed under IceWM are unchanged – Drop-down menus in Chrome under IceWM continues not working initially under IceWM while it continues working fine under DWM/Herbstluftwm.

                So no adverse impact noticed except Synaptic.

                Question though:
                – What are we gaining by this change except removing remnants of systemd garbage?
                – I have not noticed any memory footprint reduction by doing this. Are we expecting any?

                • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by olsztyn.
                • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by olsztyn.
                • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by olsztyn.

                Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                #71079
                Forum Admin
                anticapitalista

                  Thanks for the feedback @olsztyn

                  I feared something important might break ie synaptic It seems that synaptic requires libsystemd0 or libelogind0 to run.
                  I’ve tried rebuilding it, but with no success.

                  If you want synaptic back, just install libelogind0

                  The main purpose is just to remove as many remnants of systemd garbage (as you put it) as possible.
                  ps_mem.py shows a tiny improvement in memory reduction.

                  Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

                  antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

                  #71091
                  Moderator
                  Brian Masinick

                    Regarding the systems stuff, I am well aware that many people have been completely unhappy about the inclusion of systemd in the Debian infrastructure.

                    We know that the technology was created by a Red Hat engineer, we know that it brings a binary solution to the job processing and system scheduler.

                    I understand all of that and I also respect those who want nothing to do with it.

                    I can also tell you (on a practical level) that two very good distributions, siduction (a Debian Sid variation) and Debian 11 (Bullseye), in spite of (or because of, you decide) are responsive, reliable and fast on recent hardware.

                    For those of us who have OLD hardware we know how well antiX works; it’s great. I only mention the other information for balance in the discussion because the systemd, though arguably not the optimal and most flexible architecture, does perform quite well in real life work flow and use cases, including mine.

                    However a multiple path, multiple CPU optimization job scheduler that can be managed through simple text edited configuration also is effective.
                    I’m happy to see that we’ve been working with other distributions to improve the usability of the runit approach. Imagine how much richer this infrastructure would be with the many eyes and minds of more significant distributions. We’ve done well. More testing and more development sometimes helps, on one hand, though too much development can slow down and even hinder the work. Knowing all of this, I am happy to have the freedom to use our lean approach for certain situations and workloads and other stuff for different equipment and scenarios.

                    CHOICE is GOOD!

                    --
                    Brian Masinick

                    #71143
                    Member
                    Xecure

                      Thanks for bringing seatd to antiX.

                      I have tested following the instructions and the basic window managers in antiX work properly. Finally we can get rid of logind power management and return to acpi-support.

                      I have also been able to load mutter (Gnome’s compositing window manager) and gala (a mutter fork for ElementaryOS’ Pantheon) initializing some XDG variables manually, so there is a possibility of running Mutter and maybe even Gnome with some tweaking. I have also been able to start mutter as a wayland compositor, but other Wayland compositors that require many more session variables… I just gave up. Sway should work, as seatd comes from the same group, but the version in Debian doesn’t include the new version that supports seatd, and the new version requires newer wayland versions only in testing/sid, so I didn’t feel like compiling and building for bullseye.

                      All these environment variables needed for these sessions to work should be provided by libpam-elogind, through elogind (I tried building libpam-elogind only changing the dependencies so it is compatible with seatd, but having them all installed and not elogind was useless). And consolekit’s libpam doesn’t include the initialization of these variables, so seatd will be a no-no for Gnome and others until a libpam-seatd or some other alternative is created (libseat1 doesn’t provide them at all, I tried it).

                      This was an interesting experiment, but I see myself going back to elogind. seatd’s only aim is to be a good and lightweight seat management daemon, and delegate advanced session management to other libraries. Trying to rework desktop-session to provide this functionality while I was experimenting is just a terrible patchwork, and I only succeeded with half of what I wanted to do.

                      A note on the seatd package. It brings a man page for seatd-launch, but this executable is not included in the package. Is this because it isn’t stable enough yet or was a config flag missing for it to be built?

                      Thanks, anticapitalista for the effort of bringing new tech to antiX.

                      antiX Live system enthusiast.
                      General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

                      #71147
                      Forum Admin
                      anticapitalista


                        A note on the seatd package. It brings a man page for seatd-launch, but this executable is not included in the package. Is this because it isn’t stable enough yet or was a config flag missing for it to be built?

                        I missed adding it to the build. (new version sent to repos will have seatd-launch as a separate deb)

                        I finally found out what was causing synaptic and lxterminal not to open and a fix has been sent to the repos.
                        The issue was with libvte-2.91-0.

                        Just goes to show that probably 90% of packages in Debian do not need libsystemd0/libelogind0 as a hard dependency for the apps to work.

                        • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by anticapitalista. Reason: added seatd-launch info

                        Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

                        antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

                        #71162
                        Member
                        Xecure

                          Just goes to show that probably 90% of packages in Debian do not need libsystemd0/libelogind0 as a hard dependency for the apps to work.

                          As I have decided to be a dbus abductee, and my life is easier with pipewire, I wont be removing libelogind0, though I am just me, and I can adjust the system however I want.

                          Will the future antiX-21 releases use seatd, to make it more lean and mean? seatd is more than enough for all installed antiX window managers and programs, and elogind is only needed for some apps and window managers/Desktop environments (and it installs automatically if needed). I think it may also be a good option for when a transition to wayland (waaaaay in the future), as the wlroots based wayland compositors are the only possibility for light non-bloted systems.

                          Going back to testing, did anyone else experience problems when both seatd and elogind were installed at the same time? They are suposed to be compatible, but on my test system with runit, login took about 30 seconds or so, instead of being instant. Maybe it was some changes on my system, but seatd and elogind are supposed to be able to live together.

                          antiX Live system enthusiast.
                          General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

                          #71238
                          Forum Admin
                          anticapitalista

                            seatd is likely to replace elogind in future builds of antiX, but elogind will still be available in our repos.

                            IMO elogind is really systemd without it being the init. (Not that this is particularly bad – at least with elogind users can use other init systems to systemd such as runit, sysvinit and S6).
                            Being able to remove elogind isn’t too difficult either, but removing libelogind0 is, as it involves rebuilding packages.
                            libelogind0 only provides a 200k shared lib which symlinks to libsystemd0 so that is better than having the whole elogind stuff.
                            However, as I mentioned in a post above, libelogind0 is not really needed at all by a lot of software so being able to remove/replace this last piece of systemd cruft is an aim.

                            *bump* for more testing.

                            In a week or so, I’ll probably move all the newly built packages in dev to main.
                            This will not (I hope) affect anyone’s install whether you are using/want to use elogind/libelogind0.

                            Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

                            antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

                            #71335
                            Member
                            fungalnet

                              dedicated to anticap with love
                              http://forum.obarun.org/viewtopic.php?pid=9051#p9051

                              “Marx taught capitalists how the world works, their task was to change it. They did, they took over it.”

                              ———————

                              LXDE doesn’t need the shit LXQT and XFCE must have to be fully functional.
                              LXDE doesn’t need to be maintained as long as nobody finds a bug. It is like RUNIT, unmaintained, perfect.
                              LXDE still maintains a git where you can report a bug, if you ever found one, Runit doesn’t. Most likely if you were to find a bug you would report it to Void. Runit only has a tarball out for years, same damn tarball everyone uses. Poor lxpanel and lxsession, complain and throw out warnings, but they keep on ticking. You give it a tiny dose of consolekit2 and a little dbus pat in the back and it is happy again. Everything else on it works fine without either of those crutches. Just install lxapanel and run it on openbox terminal, no logind/ck no dbus. Just some warnings here and there. Why? If you want gparted, synaptics, etc.. started from its panel-menu, and maybe a couple of panel addons, it will spit out warnings on terminal, doesn’t crash/exit.

                              Qt is just as evil as chromoogle, systibmD, zstFBd, as anyone and it is sticking its tongue out to Stallman-ism for its “open” and “FREE” licensing bullshit. Not even the most inner-core of IBM/RH think-tank went as far as selling commercial LTS for an open/free product.

                              xfce is just as cheap (ho ho ho) as plasma or cinnamon or mate, incorporating more and more “functionality” and “feature”ism through logind. You take away logind and xfce exits 100.

                              Beyond IceWm, openbox (floating king), I have recently discovered and be willing to tolerate, vtwm.

                              vtwm has a little easily configurable window (default bottom right) where desktops can be an area 4×2 (4w 2h) or anything you like 20×6 where each floating window can be scattered in that area and you just focus to where you want to be centered at. Instead of flipping from desktop area 1-2-3 … you just have an open space, as big as you need, like if you had many monitors. Just move the mouse beyond the screen and it moves to the general area of the next window. The idea is great as a start, I am imagining and hoping development will take some of the rough edges off. For example, a browser with many windows, if it is closed (killed) you lose all windows, not the particular one you are closing as in most wm.

                              vtwm take less than 10MB of ram, openbox takes 18-20MB. Openbox provides a hell of a lot of functionality for those 20MB it consumes. You can keep your tiling-only WMs, for impressing a g-friend/b-friend of being a “hacker”.

                              Joe’sWM kicks butt right after OB, and blackbox is way too minimal to be considered.

                              Subjectively: iceWM is an eyesore and a half.

                              • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by fungalnet.
                              #71337
                              Member
                              PPC

                                Joe’sWM kicks butt right after OB, and blackbox is way too minimal to be considered.

                                Subjectively: iceWM is an eyesore and a half.

                                I think we are way off topic here- I know, I know, you started your small rant about window managers talking about their dependencies… But talking about “eyesores” has nothing to do with the subject… That being said, let me talk about window managers a:-)
                                I do understand why rox-icewm is the default “desktop”- it offers about the same functionality a windows 98 user expects, (the rox managing the desktop even offers desktop icons, something I used a lot in my long gone Windows and then Mint days). But JWM offers about the same funcionlity with a less configurable, and more plain looking set of window decorations and menu. For some reason I love Fluxbox – I’ve been using it for over a year, but with a third party toolbar (and now a third party menu). I know that Fluxbox and Openbox are “cousins”, and I even tried out Openbox once or twice- I’m just used to fluxbox- if would be almost the perfect light window manager if it offered, out of the box, quick launchers from it’s toolbar- the more recent commits on it’s git do allow that, that Skidoo even compiled a fluxbox version that allowed for “text quick launchers” (not ideal, but, when using those with a font that had glyphs that mimiced application icons, it looked and acted just like it had quick launch icons- but that’s way too convoluted for normie users).
                                Why do I talk about all 3 window managers here? Easy- I tried them all, with and without desktop icons, and even in min mode- all 3 took about the same idle RAM, with no more than about 1mb of difference across them- I think that fluxbox won by a sliver, and thats why I began using it (then my main desktop had 1gig of RAM, so I really could use an extra mega). System resource wise, they are all equivalent, but IceWM does keep being updated (something that Fluxbox has not done since the Dinosaurs roamed the Earth, and JWM is just too plain looking and unknown to most Linux users- even most “normie” users know about Openbox, and some about Fluxbox- older folks heard the good press, many years ago, that IceWM made Linux look like Windows 98).

                                P.

                                #71358
                                Member
                                olsztyn

                                  Subjectively: iceWM is an eyesore and a half.

                                  Very interesting article. Thank you…
                                  Question(s), if you do not mind:
                                  – IceWM being ‘eyesore’ – is this because the toolbar fluff (openbox does not have one) or lower efficiency vs. openbox?
                                  – VTWM – looks very interesting concept. I was just looked at possibility of installing on antiX and not clear yet, except compiling. How difficult would this be adding both Openbox and VTWM to antiX installer as options?

                                  Thanks and Regards…

                                  Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                                  http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                                Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 33 total)
                                • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.