Removing libelogind0 (testers needed)

Forum Forums Official Releases antiX-21/22 “Grup Yorum” Removing libelogind0 (testers needed)

  • This topic has 32 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated Nov 24-6:02 pm by Xecure.
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 33 total)
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  • #71372
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick

      I agree with PPC in this matter and I’ve been a personal advocate of IceWM for many years. As PPC says, there is not much difference in resource usage between the majority of window managers, and in particular, the window managers in discussion. One advantage of IceWM that may not be immediately obvious is that the default mouse click actions and the default control key sequences are similar to a few major commercial interfaces, so this makes IceWM an easier transition for those who are completely new to it.

      In my opinion, experienced users have the knowledge and skills to add and remove software, and also to configure things in whatever way they want. A newcomer may have these skills, but for some, even a simple window manager can be a challenge; anything that we offer within reason to make such people feel welcome is helpful. We’re not a distribution specifically intended for new users, we are a distribution for people who use equipment that works best with lean, efficient software. Nevertheless, if we can balance lean software with reasonably easy to use software, it’s a big win, and we’ve welcomed many users over the years who fit a similar set of interests and needs.

      --
      Brian Masinick

      #71419
      Moderator
      caprea

        libelogind0 is gone today on my antiX21 and with it the vlc player.
        synaptic runs fine now, didn’t try much but printing and scanning works over usb and network.

        #71427
        Member
        olsztyn

          JWM is just too plain looking and unknown to most Linux users

          These qualities do not actually bother me as long as JWM is rock solid and I can find reasonably aesthetic theme, which so far might be the ‘Black’ one provided in antiX, the only one reasonably presentable. I have not previously used JWM but once fungalnet appears to be praising it (right after openbox) I have just tried and it actually grows on me.
          Now, if I only can figure out how to show WiFi monitor in tray, such as in IceWM, and add apps to quick launcher, then I am not sure I need more fluff. Any ideas would be appreciated…
          One additional advantage of JWM over IceWM on antiX 21 is that drop-down menus work fine on Chrome/Chromium, while not so much in IceWM. I know, I know – this is a Chrome/Chromium fault, not IceWM. However being anxious to have everything working on my systems and looking for simplicity/reliability not complexity/bugs then JWM looks pretty much satisfying such requirement so far, as useful in tandem with DWM or Herbstluftwm…
          So, as much as this is so far just evaluation phase for me, can anyone please shed some light on what I will be missing in JWM vs. IceWM, if quick launch items could be configured and network status in tray…
          This is all triggered thanks to fungalnet for praising JWM…

          Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
          http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

          #71469
          Member
          fungalnet

            IceWM: I said subjectively, because it is about the aesthetics of it. Also the menus I’ve seen on IceWM are too convoluted, just too many options, too many things, organized a bit counterintuitively. I found myself switching through “themes”, being too many, and half way down the list I was trying to remember which I hated the least.

            OB: You don’t get much off the box, a good thing, but there is not much you cannot do if you wanted. It you get the hang of editing the rx.xml file to customize functionality, not many wm will do the things you get OB to do.

            VTWM: I was wrong about it being new and hoping for development, this things is about 20y old or more.
            What we are used to with workareas in most wm/de is to have a linear/sequential flip left-righ 1,2,3,4…
            If you want this on vtwm you set the area for 4 dsktop-areas as 1×4. The advantage here is just that you can be at 33% on 1 and 67% on 2, using that conventional mode of thinking. But add a 2nd or 3rd row x 4 and you have a 12 screen area that is borderless. Imagine a stack of 3 rows and 4 columns of seamless monitors to move windows around in.

            I don’t see any problems of having several wm installed, I’ve had up to 5 or 6 at a time of comparing and testing. I always try something I didn’t before, but I find myself back to OB when I do work and forget I have a mouse.

            VTWM source: git://git.code.sf.net/p/vtwm/code
            On arch it seems a pretty straight build, automake/autoconf is used
            ./configure –prefix=/usr –sysconfdir=/etc
            There is also a tarball on SF http://sourceforge.net/projects/vtwm/files/vtwm-5.5.0.tar.gz

            You may need esound and rplay if you want the wm to play audio for you

            #71495
            Member
            olsztyn

              OB: You don’t get much off the box, a good thing, but there is not much you cannot do if you wanted. It you get the hang of editing the rx.xml file to customize functionality, not many wm will do the things you get OB to do.

              Not previously being in-depth familiar with OB and VTWM, short of just quick trying OB on one or two occasions and never VTWM, I do appreciate the info. I also noticed that IceWM menus fall short in dexterity and simplicity. I had used Fluxbox before but thanks to much work done for IceWM by antiX team eventually IceWM has taken a more permanent place on my antiX instances.
              When time allows I will see if I can figure out OB and VTWM configuration, in search for the utmost solution.
              Thanks and Regards.

              Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
              http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

              #71496
              Moderator
              Brian Masinick

                IceWM is not the most advanced window manager; it’s a simple tool that provides a basic and fairly familiar keystroke set.

                I’ve said it many times: veterans and experts can (do, and will) use other approaches. The good ideas here have validated my statement. Anyone can feel free to change anything in antiX as long as they are able to modify and fix whatever they do.

                I stand by IceWM still; it’s basic, stable, lean, simple and it works.

                --
                Brian Masinick

                #71503
                Member
                ModdIt

                  Like BobC I very rarely need the menu after setting up starters in the ICEWM task bar.
                  Long ago I set a lot of menu items to hidden, removed some others altogether. Now forget it.
                  Some things I start from console using bash alias shortcuts, have those for some common tasks
                  too.

                  In regard to optics it takes me a few minutes to copy in my config, been doing that since my
                  early antiX days.

                  I have stuck with ice as it seems to be the easist for windoze users to get used to, configuring
                  can be a somewhat convoluted pain, even now after near 2 years usage..

                  As I have written in previous posts I do not change a lot, bar to autohide, BobC thin theme, screen
                  background setup is left to user, he or she can look at cheat sheet and diy. I help first timers install
                  the needed applications put in starters, standard set plus extra depending on usage case.
                  Make sure user has Internet and printing, let them work.

                  #71506
                  Moderator
                  Brian Masinick

                    Like BobC I very rarely need the menu after setting up starters in the ICEWM task bar.
                    Long ago I set a lot of menu items to hidden, removed some others altogether. Now forget it.
                    Some things I start from console using bash alias shortcuts, have those for some common tasks
                    too.

                    In regard to optics it takes me a few minutes to copy in my config, been doing that since my
                    early antiX days.

                    I have stuck with ice as it seems to be the easist for windoze users to get used to, configuring
                    can be a somewhat convoluted pain, even now after near 2 years usage..

                    As I have written in previous posts I do not change a lot, bar to autohide, BobC thin theme, screen
                    background setup is left to user, he or she can look at cheat sheet and diy. I help first timers install
                    the needed applications put in starters, standard set plus extra depending on usage case.
                    Make sure user has Internet and printing, let them work.

                    Again, all of this points to the flexibility and ease of use and also underscores that novice users can do well with IceWM; those who are motivated enough to change it can either enhance the IceWM experience or replace it. The points are made. Choice is good. We are lean, yet very flexible.

                    --
                    Brian Masinick

                    #71571
                    Member
                    olsztyn

                      I finally found out what was causing synaptic and lxterminal not to open and a fix has been sent to the repos.
                      The issue was with libvte-2.91-0.

                      Just to confirm from testing on my side – Synaptic now opens after installing the modified libvte-2.91-0.
                      No libelogind0…
                      So far everything works now.
                      Thanks!

                      • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by olsztyn.

                      Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                      http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                      #71573
                      Member
                      olsztyn

                        Going back to testing, did anyone else experience problems when both seatd and elogind were installed at the same time? They are suposed to be compatible, but on my test system with runit, login took about 30 seconds or so, instead of being instant. Maybe it was some changes on my system, but seatd and elogind are supposed to be able to live together.

                        Just for the purpose of testing I installed back libelogind0, so both seatd and libelogind0 are both installed.
                        I do not experience any such delay of login. Runit 21 Live.

                        Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                        http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                        #71590
                        Member
                        olsztyn

                          *bump* for more testing.

                          In a week or so, I’ll probably move all the newly built packages in dev to main.

                          It appears you have done this today, if I am not mistaken…
                          I updated and purged all *elogind*. Re-tested in ‘production’ instead of ‘dev’ now.
                          All seems to work so far, including Synaptic:
                          – CUPS printing on Xerox Phaser 3635MFP
                          – SMB CIFS mapping and access of network shares.

                          Confirmed – No libelogind0 in the system.
                          Tested on Runit 21 Live from Internal SATA. IceWM and JWM so far.
                          This looks very good.
                          So even if some soft package installs libelogind0 during installation process, I think I already tested it should not break anything. However, I am not clear if such purge can be repeated if libelogind0 makes way back into the system after such install…
                          I did not have a chance to evaluate memory footprint benefit yet…

                          • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by olsztyn.

                          Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                          http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                          #71593
                          Forum Admin
                          anticapitalista

                            Yes, I moved the dev debs into nosystemd.

                            elogind/libelogind0 is not automatically removed
                            seatd is not automatically installed

                            We’ll leave it up to each user to decide their preference.

                            If user wants to “block” any installation of libelogind0, install libseat1.

                            Then if any app you try to install wants libelogind0, it will give an error something like this.

                            apt install vlc
                            Reading package lists... Done
                            Building dependency tree... Done
                            Reading state information... Done
                            Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
                            requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
                            distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
                            or been moved out of Incoming.
                            The following information may help to resolve the situation:
                            The following packages have unmet dependencies:
                             libseat1 : Conflicts: libelogind0
                            E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.

                            compared to this with libseat1 not installed

                            apt install vlc
                            Reading package lists... Done
                            Building dependency tree... Done
                            Reading state information... Done
                            The following additional packages will be installed:
                              libelogind0 libopenmpt-modplug1 libvlc-bin libvlc5 libvlccore9 vlc-bin vlc-data vlc-plugin-base vlc-plugin-qt vlc-plugin-video-output
                            Suggested packages:
                              vlc-plugin-fluidsynth vlc-plugin-jack vlc-plugin-svg libdvdcss2
                            Recommended packages:
                              libproxy-tools vlc-l10n vlc-plugin-access-extra vlc-plugin-notify vlc-plugin-samba vlc-plugin-skins2 vlc-plugin-video-splitter
                              vlc-plugin-visualization
                            The following NEW packages will be installed:
                              libelogind0 libopenmpt-modplug1 libvlc-bin libvlc5 libvlccore9 vlc vlc-bin vlc-data vlc-plugin-base vlc-plugin-qt vlc-plugin-video-output
                            0 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
                            Need to get 6,283 kB of archives.
                            After this operation, 22.0 MB of additional disk space will be used.
                            Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
                            Abort.

                            Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

                            antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

                            #71605
                            Member
                            olsztyn

                              If user wants to “block” any installation of libelogind0, install libseat1.

                              This will come in handy. I usually try to stay away from bloated apps such as VLC, GIMP or others, but should a useful small app want libelogind0 it is good to know.
                              Thanks for your continued strategy to make antiX better, faster and cleaaner…

                              Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                              http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                              #71606
                              Member
                              olsztyn

                                This was an interesting experiment, but I see myself going back to elogind. seatd’s only aim is to be a good and lightweight seat management daemon, and delegate advanced session management to other libraries. Trying to rework desktop-session to provide this functionality while I was experimenting is just a terrible patchwork, and I only succeeded with half of what I wanted to do.

                                Hi Xecure…
                                As I always read attentively every word you write, these above did not escape my attention…
                                Would you be able to shed some light on the necessity to rework desktop-session? Just asking as so much depends on desktop session management in antiX:
                                – Is reworking desktop-session architecture necessary due to missing now libelogind0? It works now but not efficient due to change?
                                – Or desktop-session architecture can remain as it is even after purging *elogind*, but some additional functions can be leveraged by re-wrriting?
                                So far my testing of antiX with no libelogind0 has been very limited, so I would like to understand impact…
                                Thanks and Regards…

                                Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                                http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                                #71651
                                Anonymous

                                  an interesting experiment, but I see myself going back to elogind.

                                  Late to find this topic. Just posting to mention that I too remain fine / comfortable having (dbus and) elogind as part of my system.

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