Rolling release in antiX

[Member stalzak]

howdy, so i looked up in the faq and the forum about this but i’m dumb and would appreciate the walkthrough

so, if i’m understanding correctly antiX is best used as an “as-in” distro, where it’s better to leave most things untouched as future upgrades will override everything out of /home (right?). but then i’m confused, how can i configure my system without needing to do it all over again between each release? like conky for instance, iirc since the settings file’s not in /home my customization of it won’t be kept upon upgrading. likewise, can i install new non-appimage apps not included in the repos and expect them to keep working upon future upgrades? and then, can i remove packages that i’m not planning on using without them reinstalling on any future update?

also, for accessibility and ease of use reasons (read: imma forget) i’d like to use antiX as a rolling release, but i’m unsure as to how good of an idea that is. i assume it’d require me to use sid’s repos instead of the main buster ones, but would it then mean that my customizations of non-/home files would be permanently overwritten on? and while we’re at it, would that also mean that i’d miss the inclusion of new tools and scripts between releases, like the wifi-switch script added in 19.3 for instance?

thanks for the help!

[Member Xecure]

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About update in the same number release, updates come automatically.

From https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/AntiX_19#Point_Releases
Point Releases

Every point release brings updates, bug-fixes and sometimes new applications. All these will be available from the original release (by apt upgrading), so there is no need to reinstall antiX with the new point release, as you will receive the fixes as automatic updates.

About using antiX as rolling release, you have 2 options:
1. Build your antix flavor from antiX 19 sid core (or antiX 19 runit sid core). It would be similar to creating an Arch Linux installation and living on the edge. A few users have done this and are happy with their system.
2. Change the repos (using Repo Manager tool) in a normal antiX 19 installation (be it net, core, base or full) to testing (both antiX and debian sources) and have a more stable semi-rolling. Or go full hardcore and change the repos to sid.

I recently did option 2 from an antiX 19.3 base (but to testing, as I wanted to build a package in testing) and mostly everything worked for me (except the known duplication glitch in the Applications menu entry).

There are always risks when upgrading to testing or sid, so make a backup just in case (if you are interested in following this path).
I recommend you do the experiments on a frugal install, so you don’t risk heavy damage.

antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

[Member stalzak]

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hey Xecure! so i hear ya, point releases add new scripts and packages which can be downloaded via apt upgrade. but i’m still confused about how this impacts config files and the such.

for the rolling release, i considered building up from a antix runit sid core, but honestly i am doubtful in my ability on setting up a complete GUI from command line. so i’ve been musing about option 2 as well, but i want to be sure of what i’m doing before trying it out, hence my previous questions about config files, updating and upgrading.

[Member ModdIt]

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Please take this as addition to advice/info from Xecure. My take is to keep a stable base system, but update kernel and applications if needed/as wished for. This gives
me less headeache as what I setup is also passed on to other users.

You wrote: so, if i’m understanding correctly antiX is best used as an “as-in” distro, where it’s better to leave most things untouched as future upgrades will override everything out of /home

If you use a separate home you can update the base saystem without losing your customisation, as long as that is kept in your home. But, you may get some usualy easily solved issues with old configuration files. Unless something goes wrong home user settings are kept as is during upgrades.

Another way on a major, i.e. version update is to copy out all your important files from home, do a fresh version install and copy back in after. I do that way.

If you make a personal remaster of your installed system and create a live version, check it works correctly ! and keep it handy you can do the wildest experiments and reinstall to your
customised system very quickly.

I do a lot of experimenting on a remaster running live from a 32GB stick. Only problem is with big changes you need a computer with plenty of memory. I do incremental smaller changes as sometimes even my 8 GB rom is not enough. That is also my carry around OS. Plug in and boot up to a familiar envirenment on almost any other computer in range to about 12 years old.

On a side note I started using this system after years of rolling release. I will not go back, using the tools antiX provides is way more stable but extremely flexible.

[Member stalzak]

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hi Moddit! so, you personally prefer using stable rather than rolling releases, and then do a clean install on major releases? on my end i don’t think i have an interest in using a remaster, since i only use antiX on a single low-end laptop from its HDD, but i’m still on the fence about whether using stable or sid.

if i customize my antiX by removing and adding certain packages, is there a way to compare what i’ve added or removed against the normal base install, and create a script replicating those changes? if so, clean installs between major releases might sound less daunting since it’d remove the need for me to redo everything.

and then regarding a rolling release, as i asked would switching to sid repos mean that i’d not get new scripts and packages added in point and major releases?

thanks again!

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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If you choose ‘rolling’ ie testing or sid, then you should be prepared to fix any breakage (it will happen because that is how Debian testing/sid works).

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member ModdIt]

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You ask.
if i customize my antiX by removing and adding certain packages, is there a way to compare what i’ve added or removed against the normal base install, and create a script replicating those changes? if so, clean installs between major releases might sound less daunting since it’d remove the need for me to redo everything.

AntiX is somewhat like an operating system swiss army knife, most tools are already present. please just take your time to find your way around.

Usually no need to write anything for what you envisage because the antiX snapshot tool creates an ISO with all the changes you have made to an installed system.
You would need to select personal when you use the tool as that preserves your changes.
Just make sure you are able to boot a stick or DVD prepared with that tool.

You write: i don’t think i have an interest in using a remaster, since i only use antiX on a single low-end laptop from its HDD.

You would, to be safe create some kind of a backup of your system, the remaster/snapshot is that and a portable system all rolled in to one ISO file.
If you end up with a huge remaster or snapshot some BIOS may not allow it to boot, way round is trim during snapshot, backup data.

I reinstall my anchient EEPC (fitted with SSD) in roundabout 10 to 12 Minutes. That is, a complete reinstall and back to desktop and uses a
snapshot made on a completely different system.
Differences-Snapshot/Remaster. I remaster a live USB boot running system after changes. Snapshot creates an ISO image of the installed system.

I make risky changes where possible on the live system, it takes longer but my installed system is safe, if I break something a reboot brings me back
to working state.

Please take a read https://antixlinux.com/the-most-extensive-live-usb-on-the-planet
Silly for me to repeat more here.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by ModdIt.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by ModdIt.

[Member manyroads]

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In all honesty, “yes” you can make any Debian/ Devuan based distro into something like a rolling release. I personally find it much wiser (if you want to use a rolling release) to go with a distro that is really setup to run that way. Debian and Devuan (unstable/sid) do not come very close to offering the flexibility or even reliability of an arch, void, gentoo, or slackware based distro. As @anticapitalista noted…

Pax vobiscum,
Mark Rabideau - http://many-roads.com
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
dwm & i3wm ~Reg. Linux User #449130
20 Jan 2021 ~ "End of an Error"

[Anonymous]

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if i customize my antiX by removing and adding certain packages, is there a way to compare what i’ve added or removed against the normal base install, and create a script replicating those changes?

A manifest of preinstalled packages is present within the ISO.
see: /usr/share/antiX/installed-packages.txt

Forum search “installed-packages” (noquotes) should find the topic in which BobC and I and others extensively discussed scripting this ~~ “this” meaning checking/comparing, and the prospect of running a script to re-populate a new install when moving across major {Debian9->Debian10} versions.

Some flies in the ointment:
Over time (across versions), some debian metapackages (and virtual packages) will change names.
If you are tracking sid, you will discover that _poof_ some of your listed packages will have disappeared.
^—v
scripted commandline transactions ala “apt install blahbla bla whatever python_majorversion.minorversion” are prone to failure

[Moderator christophe]

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Hello stalzak,
What I read as your root issue: you don’t want to “keep reinventing the wheel,” so to speak, when the time comes for a new base version.

FWIW, I always use stable. I make a list of key programs I want on my system (a simple text file listing). I backup (simple copy of) files like conky configuration (/home/.conkyrc), the fluxbox configuration (/home/.fluxbox folder), and most of the subfolders from /home/.config and /home/.local (the main user config files locations). I transfer (just a simple copy) & keep my files in a separate archive usb/external hdd, for easy access — to copy whatever is needed to whichever computer (same or different one) that I want to set up “my way.”

If removing unused packages is something you want to do, here’s what I do: Some things like games, I do remove, if I don’t use that program. For things like Icewm, herbstluft, JWM, I don’t want to risk messing something up, so I simply edit my fluxbox menu to hide those options. (Also, keeping the other window managers is very helpful if you ever need them for some reason.) Accessing the control centre & editing fluxbox settings, editing menu tab, placing a “#” in front of lines I don’t want to be read/show in the menu. (But be careful to understand the “logic” that the window manager uses to read the file. If you need more guidance, just ask.)

Also, for general user menu editing, (hiding applications from the cascading menus,) can be accomplished from the root menu (or “start menu”) > Applications > Preferences > Menu Manager. This is the part that an upgrade may reverse back to defaults after an upgrade. For example, I hid all the LibreOffice entries except Writer. The next time I did an upgrade that upgraded libreoffice, they all showed up again in the menu. (Oh, well, minor thing, really. And does not happen for any other apps, in my experience.)

That routine of notes, minimal config file backups, and “non-destructive menu-editing” keeps me able to re-setup my customized system quickly whenever I need to do it.

Just my two cents…

• This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by christophe. Reason: typo correction

confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019

[Member stalzak]

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thank you all for the replies! i’ll stick to good ol’ stable then, i’ll try and use that file as a base, and i’ll look up the threads and links you mentioned. thanks for your words of wisdom 🙂

[Forum Admin rokytnji]

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I used to run testing, Expreimental. Sid. Repos for my own personal education.

Spent tons of hours fixing broke updates and doing online searches.

Being younger then. I had the energy. Even energetic enough to enable testing repos in Beta antiX isos after rc1 came out. Keeping a Beta release rolling.
Not really sensible. But being unsensible with my gear is a trade mark of mine back then.

Kinda a ” Hold my beer for sec. and watch this ”

I have mellowed while aging. So stable repos rule now. Anti is spot on. I usually kept my mouth shut when running like this.
Any breakage I solo’d it,

mostly

.

Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
Not all who Wander are Lost.
I'm not outa place. I'm from outer space.

Linux Registered User # 475019
How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

[Moderator BobC]

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I agree. I did an install of Arch from scratch 15 years ago, and spent a week getting it all working, and brought in some updates one night, and was wiped out by them. The same thing happened to me running Manjaro once. I think it’s just that rolling releases are close to the cutting edge. The package updates here have been pretty reliable by comparison. I run on stable. Every once in a while I will try a program from testing, but with caution on a test machine first.

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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BobC wrote:

I agree. I did an install of Arch from scratch 15 years ago, and spent a week getting it all working, and brought in some updates one night, and was wiped out by them. The same thing happened to me running Manjaro once. I think it’s just that rolling releases are close to the cutting edge. The package updates here have been pretty reliable by comparison. I run on stable. Every once in a while I will try a program from testing, but with caution on a test machine first.

I also agree with you and Roki, but I can also tell you that keeping Debian Sid (or antiX with Sid enabled) is a whole lot easier to maintain and fix.
While I occasionally still dabble with Sid, for the most part, since I’m now retired too, I just use stable software; if there’s anything newer that I want to try, I can find it and install it manually.

As for Arch Linux and Manjaro, I’ve had difficulty with both of them. I worked with Arch, also between 15-20 years ago, and I did build it from scratch. I made the huge mistake of experimenting with an AUR (community) package that literally started wiping out not only Arch, but it started rewriting everything on my disk. I think it got to one or two other partitions before I frantically aborted it. With recovery software (and I DID follow my own recommendations and recovered from the backup files and distributions that I had readily available.

Manjaro was less of a disaster, but it broke itself after maybe a dozen updates. There IS actually an Arch derivative today that is much more stable and I have it on a partition now and it has been flawless; Endeavor OS is a really solid distribution for those who still enjoy distro hopping from time to time. It doesn’t replace my trio of antiX, MX Linux and Debian Linux as my main “go-to” systems, but it works quite well.

--
Brian Masinick

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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I’ve actually been running antiX sid since 2007! I had it on all my boxes bar one (I kept that for antiX development work so it had to be based on Debian stable).
Most of those boxes have since died (hardware failure), but I do still run antiX sid as frugal installs on my main laptop as well as antiX sid being my main driver on my desktop.
The desktop runs a 32 bit antiX-sid version (antiX-base-maintenance Edelweispiraton 01 October 2012) running in a partition and a 64 bit antiX sid version (antiX-15-beta1-V_x64-full Killah P 23 March 2015) is running as my main driver.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

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