Second proposal for cleaned up version 17.2.1

Forum Forums Official Releases antiX-17 “Heather Heyer” Second proposal for cleaned up version 17.2.1

  • This topic has 37 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated Nov 17-7:07 pm by Koo.
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  • #12914
    AvatarAnonymous

    Imagine one user with 100% will an 0% knowledge about Linux, DE’s, WM’s …

    Now … the poor pal discovers F* buttons at boot, opens them, reads … HERBSTFLUT??? WTF??? O.K., why not, sounds good … let’s try to check on that one …

    Few moments later, she/he’s desperately clicking around the broken desktop, goes out to buy a new mice, comes back and the new mice is broke! WTF???

    No matter what, all the clicking on the desktop is to no avail … 🙂 🙂 🙂

    i3 and Manjaro are the positive examples on how the things should be done.

    i3 is very well documented and just a very quick search will throw many results on how to use it, including those:

    i3 Reference Card
    i3 keyboard layer 1
    i3 keyboard layer 2

    Manjaro did a great job with a Conky i3 manual:

    Manjaro Conky i3 Manual (Old)
    Manjaro Conky i3 Manual (New)

    Also, a user manual .pdf is included in “home” folder … if the fresh user ever comes so far.

    Watt OS did a “poor man’s solution” by making an wallpaper-tutorial. It’s simple and ugly but it works:

    Watt OS i3 Wallpaper

    Their OpenBox version was done with “more love” and had a Conky, simmilar to Bunsen:

    Watt OS OpenBox Conky
    Bunsen Hydrogen Conky
    Bunsen latest Conky

    Any chance to get something like this for the AntiX Autumntide?
    (Herbst == Autumn, Flut == Tide)

    The poor guy from before could have saved a couple of hours and bucks and maybe even donate some, instead of buying a new “broken” mice … 😉

    #12917
    Moderator
    fatmacfatmac

    If you test it ‘live’ you can just reboot if you get lost. 🙂

    Those tiling WMs are really more for people who have a good grounding in how things work. 😉

    Lots of keyboard shortcuts, look online, you’ll find info to get you started, (& of course the man pages).

    Linux (& BSD) since 1999

    #12919
    Forum Admin
    dolphin_oracledolphin_oracle

    sure am lucky that text file opens up with the instructions on the keys to log out.

    #12921
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    The more complicated we get with either window managers or desktops, the more difficult it becomes to create good documentation for every release.
    When we started with antiX, I know for certain that we only offered one or two window managers included, but there have always been ways to install additional software if you have the knowledge and the information.

    I once wrote a few articles about creating very unique distributions by starting with antiX Core. I doubt whether all of the instructions in those old articles would even work today, and if so, only to a limited extent. The point is that every time we add more, our “simple, lightweight” distribution becomes somewhat more complex and larger in size and content. It’s important to manage that. By offering different implementations, we’ve done that, but it’s definitely more complicated; I’m sure anticapitalista would agree with that statement.

    The balancing act is to decide what makes sense as the current generation of available software evolves and as the community itself changes; it’s not easy to please everyone either. My personal preference is to keep things relatively basic and simple, even in packaging. Experienced people can add whatever they want. The very first time users may want something easier than we may want to build, because it requires more documentation and different interfaces to create the most simple software possible. The sweet spot for antiX over the past 10-15 years (personal opinion) has been a relatively small footprint coupled with a solid tool chest.

    I hope we can continue to find something that offers, not necessarily the smallest images, nor the fanciest interfaces, but instead strikes the great balance we’ve shown with moderate images and solid tools, from which you can build nearly anything you can imagine.

    Brian Masinick

    #12922
    Member
    capreacaprea

    (Time to remember, even if you try to look closely, something can quickly be overlooked at first glances)
    It’s not herbstflutwm
    it’s herbstluftwm
    herbst==autumn luft=air, or maybe better autumn-time air
    http://herbstluftwm.org/index.html

    #12931
    Moderator
    fatmacfatmac

    The best distros give you what you need to get started with, but that depends on your proficiency level…..newbies want everything, experienced users generally just want wifi & a browser, (because they will add what they need, once they have an online connection). 🙂

    It’s easier to add extra programs than to remove stuff you don’t know about. 😉

    Linux (& BSD) since 1999

    #12932
    AvatarAnonymous

    @ caprea:

    How truth!

    +4u

    #12939
    AvatarAnonymous

    FWIW.

    My only complaint with Antix is that setting the resolution through using all of the magic is a 50 / 50 chance following the steps here.

    Changing screen resolution

    I understand that for those who are Linux Gurus and coders etc this is not an issue although for those of us who are old and have poor eyesight and just want a kick ass working Antix Distro it really sucks.


    Yes I know complainers.

    Thanks

    #12950
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    Fatmac,

    You make an important point below. Here’s my honest (and fond) opinion of our distribution:

    1. “AntiX is a very flexible linux distribution.” (See http://download.tuxfamily.org/antix/docs-antiX-17/FAQ/index.html ). Because of “flexibility”, there are a LOT of choices, features, alternatives, and therefore, by the very definition, the potential for confusion. On one hand, there is a great deal to be proud of, and I am extremely proud of our developers and what they’ve done.

    2. “…antiX is designed to work on older boxes…” This is another reason to explain that while antiX is designed to be relatively easy to use, and as noted”, above, “a very flexible distribution”, these features, while great, make our fine work a bit more difficult for a first time user to digest, understand and use. This does not make it impossible for a relative newcomer to get familiar with our system, but because of the many features, it’s not quite a drop it in, turn it on and it’ll do what you WANT, or what you MEAN. It’ll do exactly what it’s directed to do.

    3. We do say: “The goal of antiX is to provide a light, but fully functional and flexible free operating system for both newcomers and experienced users of Linux.” That is a wonderful goal. I think we DO provide a light, fully functional and flexible free operating system that works extremely well for experienced users of Linux. I also think that our distribution CAN be used by newcomers, but because it is so flexible, it does (implicitly) require some reading, learning, patience, questions, and a bit of trial and error to get it right. A perfectly candid analysis of what we have is that there are other systems that MIGHT plug right in, auto install, and, for certain systems, work right out of the box. Distributions such as Mint, Ubuntu, and our partner MX arguably offer approaches that have more of a “turn it on, plug it in, and it’ll work, but it may not work well on really OLD systems. AntiX is not quite as automatic to figure out as these three distributions, but it’s more likely to work on a wider range (and age) of systems.

    We used to say “lean and mean”; we’ve had to back off a bit because we are not quite as lean as we once were, again because of trade-offs between what we are capable of doing with our latest creations. In spite of all of this, we have an excellent system that is very flexible, very capable, customizable, and not terribly difficult to learn and digest. It’s just not something a true newcomer can figure out in ten minutes unless they actually have quite a bit of software experience and a lot of aptitude to pick up new things very quickly. I think this is being completely honest about what we’ve actually produced, and we have many reasons to be happy about what we’ve done together as a community!

    The best distros give you what you need to get started with, but that depends on your proficiency level…..newbies want everything, experienced users generally just want wifi & a browser, (because they will add what they need, once they have an online connection).

    It’s easier to add extra programs than to remove stuff you don’t know about.

    Brian Masinick

    #12957
    Moderator
    fatmacfatmac

    Love the smilies, Brian. 🙂

    Linux (& BSD) since 1999

    #12993
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    Love the smilies, Brian.

    Fatmac,again you said it shorter and more cleanly than I did. Guess I get carried away at times. Our distribution is excellent, but I don’t really think it is, nor was it originally intended to be a super easy distribution. While it’s not overly difficult to install or use, I still think it can be complicated for a true novice because we have so many different ways to use it, whether live or directly installed. Until someone gets a feel for what is available, understands what it means, I think the great number of tools and choices can be confusing. Once they are understood, however, they truly make our unique distribution stand out as a light, flexible distribution, from which you can actually create many other powerful distribution solutions, perfectly customized to do precisely what you want them to do, and that’s the true value of our team and its contributions to the Linux distributions available in 2018. I personally love it; I just think we have to be careful how we present ourselves to the novice community. A novice might be able to do well with our effort, but someone with very little computer know-how may also be overwhelmed by the sheer number of choices and flexibility that we offer.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by masinick.

    Brian Masinick

    #13001
    Member
    azrielleazrielle

    AntiX REQUIRES you to get your hands dirty in order to use it (though you DO have some choice as to HOW dirty!). MX does not. AntiX provides a rudimentary interface to use while learning about Linux, which is what I tend to use it for, when I’m in the mood. I find I prefer the Space-Fluxbox interface, though JWM isn’t bad either. missTell seems to like stirring the pot, to be charitable.

    Lenovo T430 i5/3220M 8GB 14.1" MX17.1/AntiX 17.1 Fluxbox/Win7SP1 180GB SSD+128GB mSATA
    Lenovo X230 i7/3520M 12GB 12.5" MX17.1/Win7SP1 500GB SSD
    Lenovo X131e i3/3227u 8GB 11.6" MX17.1/AntiX 17.1 Fluxbox/Win7SP1 500GB SSD
    #13014
    AvatarAnonymous

    AntiX REQUIRES you to get your hands dirty in order to use it…

    I completely disagree on that one. AntiX is EXTREMELY beginner friendly, well, as much as possible considering such outdated WM and that it’s supposed to run on hugely outdated HW.

    Pulseaudio missing? Never mind, Streamlight (preconfigured!) will open and you can watch your that clip. One could make example after example like that.

    If you want to learn something, you’d never take something like AntiX but, you’d start with Debian minimal and continue over Arch and Slackware to Gentoo and LFS.

    What AntiX is missing is only a good cleanup and resorting some small issues — make it even easier for beginners with adding a shortcuts Conky, cleanup those menus and give it a better looks and such. Having IceWM, doesn’t mean that you have to keep 5 different sets of Icons. Make it polished.

    Yes, I understand the problem — it’s more work to make it “finished” then it was to make it what it is but, it’s always details which make the difference between “good” and “great”.

    I can accept the answers like:

    Some users choose a different wm or even desktop manager to those shipped with antiX eg openbox, blackbox, xfce, mate so they do not get to see the main/root menu as we have set it up (customised). They will only see the Update Menu (and other examples you refer to) under Applications.

    Since the developer is developing his product and not me, that’s fine for me, it shows the way of thinking and he can do whatever he wants and however he wants with HIS product, since HE is the one doing it — take it or leave it. But, that does not make such answer a good one or acceptable one in any other way.

    The thing is quiet simple: If I’m developing my distribution with IceWM only, why for the Gods sake, I should take care, that a user which MIGHT install itself Mate, should see anything at all? If he’s installing something extra that I do not provide, then it should take care that it makes the “unvisible” things become visible or things which brake, work again!!! I’m developing MY product for its intended purpose, which is as is, as I want it to be, and am not trying to make something that might be for everybody and for every case. I’m developing my product and I’m doing it properly and to the end — it should work and look the best possible I can make out of it and it should become a “finished” product.

    Since I’m not a developer, I don’t have any rights to demand and I’m not doing but it, that does not take me the right to notice the space for improvement and propose — which I do.

    Reading some articles like these (among many, many others), helps to understand what am I talking about:

    https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-perfect-desktop-formula.html
    https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-fragmentation-sum-egos.html
    https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/future-technology-old-people.html

    Thanks for reading!

    #13021
    AvatarAnonymous

    Deleted.

    #13038
    Member
    malemale

    Apparently I understand only station here…

    How can I recommend i3 after manjaro to a beginner? The developers of antiX could also set fluxbox as default Desktop…

    Male is the capital of the Maldives and its wonderful people.

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