- This topic has 50 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated Dec 8-4:49 pm by PPC.
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BobC
I setup a system for someone that had never seen Linux before this week, and is a normal person, not a Windows power user. I spent a few hours with them, and asked them to do the tasks they would normally do on a computer so I could observe and try to make things work like they would expect them to.
0. If they will be using Wifi, show them how to click the monitor to bring it up and connect
1. Change the system to use the zzz-IceWM Desktop
2. Change the zzzfm Preferences settings to uncheck single click opens files
3. Change the zzzfm top left panel Devices to check Show Devices
4. Change the zzzfm top left panel Devices > Settings > Show to check Internal Drives and Empty Drives
5. On Each of the 4 panels, right click a file and change View > Style to check Detailed, and Thumbnails (Global). They might want Hidden Files (not a windows default) and Large icons as well.
6. On Each of the 4 panels, right click a file and change View > Columns, and Select all of the fields, and then move the columns so they are sequenced by importance, Name, Size, Modified, Type, Owner, Permission
7. Show them how to right click a file or folder and paste a shortcut into their Desktop folder.
8. Show them how to add an icon for a program they will use often to the toolbar, suggest starting with the IceWM Toolbar manager, change Wallpaper, antiX Updater
9. Show them how to run the antiX Updater
10. Show them how to download a picture from the web, create a wallpapers folder, and change the wallpaper to the picture
11. Show them how to find and install additional programs via the Software Installer (do they need to download and install HP Printer programs?)
12. Show them how to find and install additional packages with SynapticI’m sure there are 100 more.
The people involved live 200 miles away, so I installed MS Teams to be able to help support them from afar. I wasn’t able to get any of the remote access programs to work, after many hours of trying (once upon a time I did it with PCAnywhere, but the new programs are much more complex to configure), so that was what I used. Teams was very difficult to get working (needed to use web browser free personal version because installed version is only for business users), too, but at least eventually it did work.
ModdIt
Hi BobC, I use wire messenger on a smartphone to help, works well, even as far away as vietnam.
I prefer the user does the work, never want to remote access due to privacy concerns.
I do ask users to switch cameras and show me the screen where needed.Big advantage is it can be used for new install or fixing broken setup.
it is way more privacy respecting than the most used messengers.Do not believe the bull about
conforms to strict swiss privacy laws, they only apply to swiss citizens in switzerland, they get
spied on with help from outside…Open source wire for android is on GitHub, will soon be in FDroid store. The video is not perfect
but acceptable. Using it daily.I never change single click, users get used to it very quickly.
Added a bash alias, update for apt update and apt full-upgrade,even K manages fine that way. She is benchmark difficult user, up until a few weeks ago she used windoze
at work, still stuck with linux at home.- This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by ModdIt.
PPC
I usually install skippy-xd – so users have a visual task switcher that is similar to the one in Windows more recent versions.
Depending on what the computer is used for I also add a “search” icon to the toolbar to launch either app-select or a file searcher (zzz-find, searchmonkey, drill, etc).
The toolbar that I find works best for people used to Windows is:
Menu; Search icon; skippy-xd icon; default File Manager icon; default internet browser; Package Installer. To be on the safe side, add antiX-updater ( so users don’t forget to run it once in a while) and Toolbar Icon Manager, right next to the menu (so folks don’t have to dig around on the menu to find out how to add/remove icons to the toolbar- because people tend to forget that kind of stuff)
If the user is really strapped for RAM- disable volume-icon from the taskbar and init file, and choose a “Volume” icon that just launches yad-volume on the taskbar, saves you some 2mb of RAM. Also, using the toolbar as a “dock” to launch apps may save the users some RAM, so they can run a desktop without desktop icons- “icewm”, “jwm” or “fluxbox”.P.
oops
I usually install skippy-xd – so users have a visual task switcher that is similar to the one in Windows more recent versions
…
P.Interesting, I didn’t know this skippy-xd way into linux.
marcelocripe
BobC, I perform these same steps you described in the installations I do and include:
13. Add the Trash explained by PPC without the need for the trash-cli package in zzzFM. Include the Trashcan.desktop file in the /usr/share/applications folder and apply the $ sudo desktop-menu –write-out-global command for the icon to be displayed in the menu.
14. Add the Favorites in zzzFM: Home Folder, Documents, Downloads, Applications and the Recycle Bin. If the end user wants the Pictures folder, I teach to include this folder or any other folder in the Favorites.
15. Teach how to use Microsoft programs through the web browser and it is still possible to use the microsoft-office-online.desktop file created by PPC.
16. Teach how to access USB devices (pendrive and smartphone) and CD/DVD through zzzFM, as well as teach how to unmount these devices.
17. Make available the manual created by Spartak77 and the PPC.
18. The Tint2 bar created and configured by PPC is ideal for users who are used to the Windows 10 bar and know how to use these features, or teach how to use the Tint2 bar.
marcelocripe
(Original text in Brazilian Portuguese language)– – – – –
BobC, eu realizo estas mesmas etapas que você descreveu nas instalações que eu faço e incluo:
13. Adicionar a Lixeira explicada pelo PPC sem a necessidade do pacote trash-cli no zzzFM. Incluir o arquivo lixeira.desktop na pasta /usr/share/applications e aplicar o comando $ sudo desktop-menu –write-out-global para o ícone ser exibido no menu.
14. Adicionar os Favoritos no zzzFM: Pasta Pessoal, Documentos, Downloads, Aplicativos e a Lixeira. Se o usuário final quiser a pasta Imagens, eu ensinar a incluir esta pasta ou qualquer outra nos Favoritos.
15. Ensinar a utilizar os programas da Microsoft através do navegador de internet e ainda é possível utilizar o arquivo microsoft-office-online.desktop criado pelo PPC.
16. Ensinar a acessar os dispositivos USB (pendrive e smartphone) e CD/DVD através do zzzFM, bem como ensinar a desmontar estes dispositivos.
17. Disponibilizar o manual criado pelo Spartak77 e pelo PPC.
18. A barra do Tint2 criado e configurado pelo PPC é ideal para os usuários que estão acostumados com a barra do Windows 10 e que sabem utilizar estes recursos, ou ensinar a utilizar a barra do Tint2.
marcelocripe
(Texto original em idioma Português do Brasil)interesting is how differently we do things, I do little to transition users to linux.
No double click, no trash can, no double click the ICEWM task bar autohiding and populated.
just rox.
Icewm really reminds of win 10.I moved a user yesterday, from MX to antiX. The computer is one of a donation. Near same,
biggest difference is crucial SSD against Samsung. Rest including memory modules same.Sorry but MX is like a slow old dog in comparison to antiX21 Runit.
The device is Faster than on win 7, I have used it that way as Win 7 Pro licenced.
Coew 2 Duo 2GB Memory, Intel integrated Graühicks, s56GB SSD and 160 GB Notebook HDD.
All SATA.Seems my young lady is impressed, normally she would give me very bad eareache
for moving her to something unfamiliar….I’ve helped people with setting up, migrating and learning to use computers for about 40 years now, but have never moved anyone to Linux, other than giving away machines loaded with stock Linux distro setups, leaving the new owner to figure it out.
In this case it was for friends I’d worked with in the past, and I wanted to make sure the new (from 2007) machine would be enthusiastically accepted and used. It is replacing a much newer machine that is running Win/10, but they haven’t been happy with that one because it is so slow and difficult for them to use.
So I gave them a machine with an almost unaltered (only add was Gnome games) antiX 21 Full installed. Initially I helped connect the WiFi and after that just watched and made quick notes on what looked difficult. My notes were of where mistakes were made and what caused frustration. Then I jumped in and made the changes, and walked them though all noted items successfully, except the remote support, which ended up taking 3 hours alone to get working.
The difference was that after the tweaks and a few minutes showing them things they would want to do, like changing the wallpaper and such, they were very happy using it, I think because it did what they expected.
I’ll take the backup /home from the system, load it to a machine here, and try adding the poster’s suggestions above.
BTW, I did offer to autohide the toolbar and got an unhappy look, so didn’t do it, but yes, I like my Linux setup that way, too. Maximizing usable screen space is very important to me.
These people had been using various versions of Windows for over 20 years, so they are used to how it works, and I think the closer things are to what people are used to, the easier it is for them to adjust. This will enable them to run older machines longer without suffering by running more efficient Linux.
seaken64
I have switched to using Chrome Remote Desktop. Just install Chrome on both systems and it just works. I also use VNC and Remmina.
Seaken64
Just install Chrome
and bybye what is left of privacy. Depending on settings also bybye antiX ad
blocking as chrome merrily circumvents the etc/hosts.If I installed that browser it would not surprise me to get a letter
from a data protection agency or a family lawyer. Endangering personal data
is a criminal offense here in EU.
Giant tech is still getting away but individuals without an armada of law hawks are lost.One of the reasons for moving to Linux is some small semblance of privacy.
I give away hardware with installed antiX when I can find takers. Pass on a
customised image both setup to keep user data as safe as possible, including
communication.@BobC, I just setup autohiding taskbar and let users get on with it, same goes for single click
That caused a question a while back, how to get single click on windoze. That came from
a ca 55 year old lady with joint pain in her fingers, maybe gout. Her thinkpad has been on linux
for a couple of years and she complained about double clicking being painful more so as her working
day went on.- This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by ModdIt.
I’m not sure if this is the right place to plug my “Transformation Pack”, but, if users like a Windows 10 like UI, my tint2 toolbar and jgmenu probably makes them fell right at home…
Thanks to Xecure’s efforts, a beta version of it is available already packaged in .deb, and localized in english, pt, pt-br and spanish…Attachments:
No, its a valid suggestion. I didn’t know about the .deb install. I was just looking for “little adjustments”, but yours might be better than that.
My biggest issue is that if there are ANY questions or problems they will ask me for help, so I would need to have a system running it, and know it well to be able to help them. To me that means I should be running it myself.I will need to find the .deb and try it.
I also need to find out how trash can work. Your post on that is in Pt. I will try translating it.@BobC
The .deb package is still in beta, but you can use it without any problem with the IceWM desktop- here’s how to run my Transformation pack:
1- Download a 32 bits/64 bits jgmenu .deb package available from: https://gitlab.com/antix-contribs/jgmenu-antix/-/tree/main/deb-package (thanks to Xecure, that packaged it)
2- Download the FT10 Transformation pack .deb package, from: https://gitlab.com/antix-contribs/ft10-transformation/-/blob/main/packages/ft10-transformation_0.1.0_all.deb
3- Instal jgmenu first, then ft10-transformation
4- from the terminal / “run” menu, execute this command:
ft10-startChoose if you want a menu with Debian categories or if you want a menu with only favorites and All Apps, displayed in alphabetical order (Windows 10/11 style)
(if you run the command from the terminal, as soon as you close the terminal the tint2 toolbar closes too, and you get back to only the default Icewm toolbar.
If you are happy with this toolbar and menu, add
ft10-start &
to your start up/init file.
Also, you may want to disable the default Icewm toolbar (in Icewm’s “preferences” config file, make sure that you have this line:
ShowTaskBar=0If you want to do that config change the lazy (but also faster) way, run this command on the terminal:
echo ShowTaskBar=0 >> ~/.icewm/preferencesAnd log off and back on.
This FT10 transformation pack has a few small bugs only, it’s usable. I use it in “min” desktops, because I have no need for conky, desktop icons or even volume icon (the volume icon you see in my taskbar is a fixed hardcoded icon that runs an altered yad-volume script. You can run, of course, “volume icon” on the tint2 systray- please note that tint2 toolbar can only display the systray if the default WM systray is disabled – in icewm’s case, disabling the taskbar, also disables the systray, in Fluxbox you have to disable both it’s toolbar and the systray.
Despite the dramatic change in looks and usability, my UI is basically a tint2 toolbar using a jgmenu, both programs config files are heavily edited to get this end result. I also use skippy-xd as a visual task switcher (not essential, but I like it- the thumbnails of the running apps that you see in my screen grab are generated by the tint2 toolbar itself).
My set up is very easy to use, even for newbies- you can add/remove favorites from the menu (or toggle the “Tiles” on/off) by clicking the first entry on the menu. I also made a similar script to manage the toolbar icons (both based in IceWM’s TIM) but it does not work running from this .deb package (I’ll have to fix that)- you can manage toolbar icons from tint2 GUI, available from the menu (a much more complex way to manage “launcher” icons).The downloaded files take about 2.5mb of disk space and running on idle, on min-fluxbox, on 64bits I use about 106mb of idle RAM, and, on 32 bits less than 70mb is idle RAM (I don’t run conky because I have CPU and RAM usage on a very human readable format- much more than on Icewm’s tray icons (the toolbar also displays it’s own batery icon with percentage, on laptops). I have several scripts that I can use in my tint2 toolbar, on my screen grab I also have my home folder’s free space displayed.
About using a Trash can/recycle bin in spacefm/zzzfm, I wrote an entry post about that a while back, I’ll have to update it…
P.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.
I’ll give it a try using the debs. Yes, toolbar maintenance with tint2 is programmed, but not designed for normal people to use.
I installed the two .debs above and ran the ft10-start & , but my taskbar for icewm was still there, so i turned it off. Then I added ft10-start & to my desktop session startup, and logged out/back in, but tint2 and jgmenu never started.
I’m not sure what I did wrong. Maybe my system is hosed. I loaded Runit 64 and it decided to run the new kernel, and it has many strange problems.
PS: i changed to 4.19 kernel and that helps. Also found that I needed to use icewm instead of min-icewm so that startup would run, and add tint2 ang jgmenu to it as well.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by BobC.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by BobC.
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