Setting up antiX with IceWM to make it more comfy for ex Windows folks

[Member PPC]

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@BobC
I uploaded a new Ft-10 transformation .deb package, version 0.1.1- that solves all the bugs I noticed:
– When running with the “Tiled” layout, using the menu manager script correctly toggles Tiles on/off
– Clicking the add/remove icon on the toolbar (the “+/-” icon- now summons the script that allows users to add/remove icons to the toolbar, also, localized it to English
– Removed the duplicated “File Manager” icon

To-do’s:
– add a global “show desktop” option, that works across all Window Managers
– modernize the scripts that manage the tint2 toolbar
– correct a few localization bugs

Note:
There’s a very simple quick tint2 settings script available at:

/usr/local/lib/ft10/tint2_config_tint2.sh

that allows users to change the toolbar position, auto-hide it and change clock settings

Get it at: https://gitlab.com/antix-contribs/ft10-transformation/-/blob/main/packages/ft10-transformation_0.1.1_all.deb

EDIT:
To get the toolbar to work, you only need to run wither “ft10-start &” or “tint2 &” in your init file. Jgmenu’s script “jgmenu_run” gets called automatically when the user clicks the “start menu” icon.
And sorry, you are correct- using a min desktop with tint2 needs some extra configuring- in your particular case, adding it to icewm’s init config file and disabling conky (if you so wish) will suffice- I think the Dev’s recommended using min desktops as a debugging tool for problems only- although I’ve used for years to run a slightly more memory efficient system.
Please, if you are testing FT10, do provide some input- do you think it’s a nice tool for your users? What should be improved, etc… I’m open to all useful suggestions.

P.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.

[Moderator BobC]

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PPC, I definitely think your TransformerPack makes it look/feel more like the newer MS systems. I haven’t been much of a fan or them, and was still using 7 until they disabled my licenses (which REALLY upset me, since I had paid for them). I do have 10 on two machines, plus my work machine, and the work machine is reasonably configured, but the home ones are nighmarishly slow due to default configuration. It doesn’t much matter because I rarely boot them into their MS volumes.

I will try reloading. But should I be using Fluxbox. Icewm, or one of the other flavored desktops for best results?

[Member PPC]

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@BobC – You can try using the menu with categories, to get a more “Windows7” feel from the Transformation Pack- we tried to please both Windows7 and Windows10 cast aways 🙂
I have more recent versions, with some improvements (mostly, a “show desktop” bar, on the further right, and many localization improvements- the script to add/remove toolbar icons now shows the icons, not just app names…
Well, my slowest machine is a 32bits/1gb RAM HP laptop that runs great with antiX 19,4 runit, min-fluxbox and FT10, no desktop icons, no conky, no volume icon… I also have jgmenu configured to stay memory resident, so it opens faster on that machine – that’s the setup I use, even on my quad-core/4gb/SSD desktop… Except when opening large apps (Libreoffice/firefox) there isn’t that big of difference between those machines that have maybe a 10 years age gap, maybe more…

Edit: Weird, your Windows 7 situation- my netbook still has Windows7Pro on it (it came that way, from factory, I kept it because it also has a licensed MS Word installation, that may be handy for some documents), last time I booted into it, a few months ago, it worked fine (but I don’t think I connected to the internet)

Personal note: I’ve been using my tint2 for a very long time- I got used to seeing the system resources on the toolbar, in a easy human readable format, and also having the network/volume/weather icons on the “pseudo” system tray, without eating my system resources, and recently I’ve become very adapted to the menu that allows me locate and launch apps much faster than running the excelent app-select (I was tempted to use app-select’s output to add icons the toolbar/menu, it’s that flexible, but I digress).
If your users like the toolbar or any of the 2 available menus, you probably won’t have to do much maintenance- the way to add/remove apps to the toolbar and to the menu is self evident. with the package installer, antix updater and the log off button on the toolbar, there’s not much need to use the menu, and with the system resources displayed on the toolbar, there’s no much need for conky (the same can be said for the default icewm toolbar, but it’s much harder to read system resources from it). With the GUI tint2_manager.sh script (sadly, not localized) changing the toolbar position/size/auto hide is simple (we need a .desktop to launch it) is also a breeze… and you would not have much work helping managing those computers…

P.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.

[Member PPC]

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@BobC – sorry, I forgot to send you the link to my “add trash can/recycle bin” mini how-to in English:
https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/trashcan-possible/#post-42105

It’s for spacefm, but the steps to make it work with zzzfm are exactly the same. That how to uses the application trash-cli… More recently, to avoid that dependency, I just set zzzfm to use a command to move the file to the trash folder (that’s the command you see in my portuguese sub-forum post)
Skidoo pointed out that using this ways to “delete” files may have strange effects (like when “deleting” linked files, or something like that) but in about an year of happilly using my recycle bin in antiX, I never had any error…

P.

[Member PPC]

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@BobC

Were you able to implement my “Trash can”?

You seemed to not have liked my toolbar/implementation- it’s not for everyone, I developed it for myself, but slowly began thinking that if antiX looked more mainstream, it could enlarge it’s user base, and since Windows 10 has been the mainstream OS for over half a decade now, probably most people that use computers would be used to that kind of interface. My menu was created based on some windows 10 UI principles, but I removed everything I didn’t like, and tried to add what I though was missing. Please note that the “Tiles” I added just as joke, to see how much I could make a menu in Linux look like Windows 10- from the menu manager app, there’s a button to turn those off, getting a more simpler menu. Sometimes, nice large icons can be a good thing, I have bad eyesight, and I quickly adjusted to clicking the “Tiles” during night time, and turning them off during day time. Do you know what you get with menu tiles off? Something that looks like Windows 11 menu… Or what I think that menu could be- offering both Pinned apps and all apps in the same window (why click a button to see all apps, since you already clicked the menu button? Users can easily add or remove Pinned apps (not as easy as in Windows, I know) and I have, in my personal menu something that Xecure removed from the version that got published in gitlab- a menu button to Recent files (that shows them in a zzzfm window) and a toolbar search apps/files button, that runs rofi scripts (left click to search for apps, right click to search for files- it’s very fast, even in 32bits systems)- if you feel that any of that could be useful for your users, drop me a line, and I’ll send the changes, or tell you how to easily implement that…

It’s also easy to change the toolbar to look like anything you want (any Windows version)- but if you dislike the toolbar, you can just stick with Icewm’s default one. If you like my menu, you can disable Icewm’s default menu icon and add an icon to display my jgmenu, etc, there are many options available, I stuck to my choices, that offers the looks I like and run even lighter than the default antiX desktop

One thing that Windows users have that I could not implement, and you know how hard that is, is a list of recently run apps. I could check recently installed packages and show them, but I think that’s dumbing down users- they know what they just installed, if they want to add it to the menu/toolbar, they can, right?)

P,

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.

[Moderator BobC]

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No, you misread my lack of posting. I was up till 4 am setting up a separate system and implementing your most recent ft10 code.

I don’t like making changes to my main system unless I am really sure they are changes for long term. I also have been trying to contribute and get changes I think should be made incorporated into the distro rather than having to add them on and then be running a heavily modified system, and need to re-add them every time new code affects my changes. So to avoid modifying my main system, I setup a separate system to test this with. It really has a different look and feel than antiX, and seems oriented towards at solving the problems had by a different audience, of less technical “users”, rather than antiX’s typical “tweakers”.

Anyway, maybe the changes should be an easy to install package on the package installer that a normal person could install and configure without trouble, or an ex-win, respin intended to be easier to use.

We should probably just discuss this on the thread so others can also put in their thoughts? It’s not off topic. Its just a more radical level of change.

I haven’t tried the “trash” yet. It was getting too late last night to start on that. I do agree it would help make ex-windows users feel more at home. I do recall a few times, maybe 20 or 30 years ago, having to rescue file(s) from the recycle bin. Myself, the files I want versioned copies of are typically when I change scripts or program code, realize I goofed, and need to revert. I haven’t needed to use it lately.

Actually, I haven’t experimented with the “toolbar”, yet.

And yes, I’m still looking for a good way to implement a dynamic toolbar.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by BobC.

[Moderator BobC]

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PPC,

It seems to me that the deleted file goes to the recycle bin only if it’s deleted from via zzzFM? Is that correct? Geany already has some sort of backup system built in. Maybe others can chime in if there are other areas where files going to the recycle bin would be an important feature that could possible be configured in without a lot of code.

Making a list of recently run apps has the same problem getting data as my dynamic toolbar does. I never found any system that stored them anywhere. I wonder if there is a standard format/location should be stored in, like recent files has?

Really it would make sense to change the defaults in zzzFM and other programs that it includes so that default Windows keys would work, too, instead of expecting the user to find and change them all, one at a time.

I saw that recent post on MX about jgmenu. Gets me thinking. One thing odd is that it needs an obvious, easy way to bring up the IceWM menu (or other desktop if allowed), so it isn’t required to program the whole menu for jgmenu, or alternately, generate a jgmenu at the same time as the others. Not sure there…

And I’ve got to go back in old posts and find the disk space thing that you came up with.

If I had my druthers, I’d like to see your yad-updater running from cron, my improved screenshot utility, zim based Helpnotes (like keyboard help), youtube downloads for videos and music, audible and visible low battery and low disk space alarms, all of which I could contribute.

I DO like that skippy-xd. The only thing I’d wish for would be to click the little picture to activate that window.

I haven’t tried changing the toolbar, yet.

Overall, I could run it, myself, even. Its got a lot of similarities to the system I use for work, except its got antiX under the hood to make it blazing fast! It’s starting to look like it should be an antiX respin, like Bento is, as I see it…

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by BobC.

[Member PPC]

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@BobC – yes, the best I come up with was this hack to implement a recycle bin in spacefm/zzzfm. You can force the cli to us trash-cli, but it’s a bit dangerous, and I never tried it- it would imply renaming the cli delete command, and replacing it with trash-cli- since most users (me included) manage their files using a file manager, I think it’s a nice compromise, offering some security against accidental file deletions…

P.

[Moderator BobC]

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Yes, I agree, but then maybe it should be named zzzFM Recycle bin so nobody expects it to have files deleted by other applications. If ROX-Filer is still installed it should be configured to do the same, to be consistent. Then it could be the zzz/ROX Recycle bin. After that, if someone decides to install another file manager, it would be their responsibility to configure it. Just thinking aloud…

[Member PPC]

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@BobC – My last post was short because I wrote it right before going to bed, and I was tired… Addressing everything you talked about:
-Unfortunately I don’t use rox-filer a lot, so I have no idea how to perform the changes needed for it to work with a Recycle bin/Trash can. I tried to make my costume changes available to other people here, but I don’t the conditions to adapt everything for every single user 🙁 Case in point, my trash can suggestion should be read as “trash can for spacefm/zzzfm” – the OP that got me to work on implementing it was basically about getting a trash can plug in working in Spacefm…
I have no idea how geany and other apps operate, unfortunatly.

I thought about a respin, when I began this Transformation pack idea, but I discarded it, I don’t want to give birth to one more distro, besides, I don’t consider that having a different toolbar merits a respin- it’s nothing really major, like a new window manager, like Bento has.
But I do think antiX could have some way to set, with little effort, some new defaults- If I can, I’ll try to implement, in the following days, some stuff I had in my original Transformation Pack script (that performed automaticaly all changes needed, like changing the Window manager, editing it’s configuration files, changing the theme, default file manager, etc- it was all done instantly… But it didn’t “catch on”. I think a .deb file is a more common path to follow- if ever it finds it’s way to the antiX repo, it’s a simple task of going to the Package Installer and installing FT10 (or whatever name I settle for in the future), and then toggle it on or off from an antiX-menu entry
It’s a not hard adapting the corrent ft10-start yad script to also ask if it should adapt the window manager, so it takes over as the default taskbar- it’s simple to do it in icewm, and I mastered the changes I did need to implement that in Fluxbox, but I never tried to do it in JWM…
But I now consider automatically installing and setting as default file manager zzzfm is a bit too much, out of the box, no matter how much I like that file manager. My idea is having FT10 available for everyone, so, I no longer force my preferences on anyone that tries out FT10.

And you completely got the point of Ft10- if people are used to work with Windows10 and they get home and use antiX, it makes people’s brains switch between both ways to use computers (that may not be a bad thing, it gives your brain some extra training). But most people just want to use the computer- click the browser button, check their social medial, or the news, browser their family pics, watch some funny youtube videos or netflix, that sort of stuff… And FT10 allows antiX to do that- there’s almost no learning curve to use it- most of the stuff you need is presented on the toolbar or straight in the menu. I even though about creating some netflix and MS Office on-line .desktop files and include them, so people have some stuff they are used to available.

antiX, with Ft10 installed and configured as default toolbar, zzzfm set up as default file manager (and configured to show the usual bookmarks, and to use the Recycle bin), and a nice window manager theme, is not meant to mimic any other operating system- just be same old antiX we know and love, that allows us to use everything from a 20 years old computer to a brand new one, without have to ask around the forum or dig up menu entries to perform simple tasks (I found many comments on-line from people that tried out antiX and complained that, despite having toolbar icons, they could not be changed- why did they think that? Because most people do not want to read forums or explore dozens of menu entries to find out how to do some simple task, like adding icons to the bar/desktop/menu)

Side note: I don’t really use desktop icons, so FT10 offers no simplified way to add icons to the desktop, but, in the case of desktops managed by spacefm or zzzfm, a simple script that launches app-select and then copies the chosen app’s .desktop file to the desktop could be done in half a dozen lines of script- I don’t know of a simple way do the same in a rox managed desktop, I tried once, but it’s more complex.

On jgmenu- it automatically updates, when you install or remove any app- no need to change it to include what you installed- it uses a python script that generates an application list on the fly when you start it! It does not need any post install hook up for that! (It never failed me on that).

On skippy-xd- I find it almost a perfect application, for what it does- it brings “modern” functionally to any system, even simple window managers, but showing icons for minimized windows is an annoying “flaw”…

P.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.

[Moderator BobC]

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rox-filer – I don’t use rox-filer except by mistake, LOL. Yes, some people like it a lot, maybe they are used to how it looks and feels. I don’t know if or how a recycle bin could be configured for it, hence my suggestions about being more specific with the name so as not to mislead anyone if it can’t easily be adapted.

Case in point, my trash can suggestion should be read as “trash can for spacefm/zzzfm” – Sounds good to me…

I have no idea how geany and other apps operate, unfortunately. – I think I could get it working for Geany…

I thought about a respin… – Ok, if no respin, then I think as part of the install it should be able to quickly/easily set the right defaults at least optionally. Easier said than done, I know. I always redo the SpaceFM defaults when I do an install, anyway.

If I can, I’ll try to implement, in the following days, some stuff I had in my original Transformation Pack script (that performed automatically all changes needed, like changing the Window manager, editing it’s configuration files, changing the theme, default file manager, etc- it was all done instantly… But it didn’t “catch on”. I think a .deb file is a more common path to follow- if ever it finds it’s way to the antiX repo, it’s a simple task of going to the Package Installer and installing FT10 (or whatever name I settle for in the future), and then toggle it on or off from an antiX-menu entry
It’s a not hard adapting the corrent ft10-start yad script to also ask if it should adapt the window manager, so it takes over as the default taskbar- it’s simple to do it in icewm, and I mastered the changes I did need to implement that in Fluxbox, but I never tried to do it in JWM… – I think the key there is to have a script that pulls the current settings and displays them for editing, and then updates any that are changed. Start with obvious basics, and add others as found.

And you completely got the point of Ft10- if people are used to work with Windows10 and they get home and use antiX,… – Yes, I have those same issues

antiX, with Ft10 installed and configured as default toolbar, zzzfm set up as default file manager (and configured to show the usual bookmarks, and to use the Recycle bin), and a nice window manager theme, is not meant to mimic any other operating system- just be same old antiX we know and love, that allows us to use everything from a 20 years old computer to a brand new one, without have to ask around the forum or dig up menu entries to perform simple tasks (I found many comments on-line from people that tried out antiX and complained that, despite having toolbar icons, they could not be changed- why did they think that? Because most people do not want to read forums or explore dozens of menu entries to find out how to do some simple task, like adding icons to the bar/desktop/menu) – The one issue I had there was that I didn’t have the IceWM menu obviously available on the screen.

Side note: I don’t really use desktop icons, so FT10 offers no simplified way to add icons to the desktop, but, in the case of desktops managed by spacefm or zzzfm, a simple script that launches app-select and then copies the chosen app’s .desktop file to the desktop could be done in half a dozen lines of script- I don’t know of a simple way do the same in a rox managed desktop, I tried once, but it’s more complex. – Yes Rox presents difficulty here also.
– I have code that works from a right click on app-select to add to the toolbar or desktop of SpaceFM/zzzFM or Rox-filer with IceWM. I don’t think I ever added Fluxbox or JWM to it.

On jgmenu- it automatically updates, when you install or remove any app – That’s pretty cool

On skippy-xd- I find it almost a perfect application, for what it does- it brings “modern” functionally to any system, even simple window managers, but showing icons for minimized windows is an annoying “flaw” _ I haven’t investigated it much, just noticed the hover popup.

The only real distraction for me was the IceWM toolbar/taskbar popping up underneath the tint2 toolbar and not seeing a way to ge the IceWM menu up. .lack of the IceWM menu structure other than with Ctrl+Esc. Maybe the solution is a toolbar button that presses Ctrl+Esc for you to pop up the menu 🙂

I’ll try to play with it some more…

[Moderator BobC]

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I have the “Space Avail” monitor working on the toolbar as a separate program/monitor so I can have CPU and RAM as well. I used the -h parameter so it displays in G

#!/bin/bash

diskroot=$(df -h / | tail -1 | awk '{print $4}')
#UnComment to show an icon (and if doing so, comment the "echo" line:
#Please note an "echo" line here allows to be displayed, next to it, more than one line, piled horizontally
#echo /usr/share/icons/papirus-antix/24x24/panel/indicator-sensors-cpu.png
 echo
#UnComment to show available disk space in root:
 echo " Space Avail"
 echo "    /  $diskroot"

[Member PPC]

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@BobC- Nice, sorry that I forgot to send you the code for the executor to display disk space, I have a lot on my mind.
I also hacked together this script, to automaticaly configure ft10 in IceWM (If no bugs are found, I’ll be adding it to the ft10-create script (I hope you don’t mind taking a look at it):

#!/bin/bash
#Automaticaly configure IceWM to use ft10 toolbar by default:
 
#Get ShowTaskbar variable from icewm's preferences file:
default_icewm_toolbar=$(egrep "^ShowTaskBar=" ~/.icewm/preferences | cut -d'=' -f2 | cut -d' ' -f1 |  cut -d'%' -f1)
#if no option for showing Taskbar exists in icewm's preferences file, then create it at set to hide the default taksbar (also disables it's systray)
if [[ -z "$default_icewm_toolbar" ]]; then
echo ShowTaskBar=0 >> ~/.icewm/preferences
fi
    
#Make sure that the default iceWM taskbar is disabled:
sed -i 's/ShowTaskBar=.*/ShowTaskBar=0/' ~/.icewm/preferences
 
#Make sure that ft10's toolbar is launched at system start:
if ! grep -q ^ft10-start ~/.icewm/startup; then
  echo "ft-10 is not set to auto start in IceWM, setting it up..."
  echo ft10-start >> ~/.icewm/startup
    else
  echo "ft-10 is already setup to autostart in IceWM!"
fi
 
#Restart IceWM
killall -SIGHUP icewm

Once I have configuration scripts read for all 3 default antiX window Managers I’ll create a .desktop file for ft10-create- something called “Setup FT10” or something similar- that runs it- so the end user only has to install the .deb file and then choose, from antiX menu, to setup Ft10- and instantly gets the toolbar automagically configured.
Probably tonight I’ll try adding the code to configure fluxbox…

EDIT: I have the tint2 toolbar setup so right clicking the start menu icon summons fluxbox menu- I started using fluxbox with tint2 because I knew a direct. way to summon it’s menu, in icewm I had to use xdotool to emulate pressing the keys that make the menu appear. In the current FT10 version (016) the fastest way to get the antiX menu is showing the desktop (left click the space to right of the Power icon, on the toolbar) and then right click the desktop… I’l try to think of a way to summon all window manager’s menus with a right click on the start menu… I’m open to suggestions 🙂

EDIT2: I now have right clicking the Start Menu opening antiX menu in IceWM and in Fluxbox (id should only work in JWM if Ctrl + Esc are configured to summon the menu- sorry JWM users 🙁 ). This code will probably be in the next FT10 .deb, but, for now try this: edit tint2rc and make sure than, button1 has this settings:

button_lclick_command = jgmenu_run
button_rclick_command = xdotool keydown Control_L ; xdotool key Escape ;xdotool keyup Control_L & fluxbox-remote rootmenu

“snags”- icewm’s menu comes up on the top left corner of the screen, fluxbox’s menu comes up on the bottom left corner, overlapping the toolbar, but hey, a least we have a quick way of using all window manager’s antiX menu, right?

P.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.

[Member marcelocripe]

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button_lclick_command = jgmenu_run
button_rclick_command = xdotool keydown Control_L ; xdotool key Escape ;xdotool keyup Control_L & fluxbox-remote rootmenu

Hello PPC, the FT10 is getting better every day, towards perfection!
I suggest including this manual JWM settings information in the Help button text.

Is it possible to keep the keyboard command Ctrl+ESC to display the main menu? (If it’s not working this way yet)

– – – – –

Olá PPC, o FT10 está cada dia melhor, rumo a perfeição!
Eu sugiro incluir estas informações de configurações manuais do JWM no texto do botão de Ajuda.

É possível manter o comando de teclado Ctrl+ESC para exibir o menu principal? (Caso ainda não esteja funcionando desta maneira)

[Moderator BobC]

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Interesting. On mine my IceWM startup is empty, and I had added the ft10 to my desktop-session startup script near the end. I believe that runs before IceWM actually starts.

I was thinking about increasing the run interval for the disk space monitor to 10 seconds to keep CPU load down.

I agree with the setup script idea. I was thinking about a setup script to optionally set defaults for and in zzzFM, or maybe rox-filer, rox-term or any other programs where the defaults are unnecessarily different than windows.

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