Improving Slimski default text and its localization

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  • This topic has 22 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated May 13-2:52 pm by PPC.
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  • #141815
    Member
    PPC

      I just took a look and other languages localization files… Sigh… Probably the best option is to keep the fields with the “icons”, and not text, since some languages, like French, do take a lot of space for fields that have a lot less text in English or even in pt. Ex: “User” (I choose that shorter version, since “User name” is already used on the instruction’s line, on the top of the log in screen), in pt is “Utilizador:”, in pt_pt is “Usuário:”… in French? the original text is “Nom d’utilisateur” and “password” is 3 words: “mot de passe”.

      Also, keeping the “icons” would not be such abrupt change, from the current default. Any opinions on that subject?

      P.

      #141826
      Member
      iznit

        Please test the new theme at 1024×768 to confirm that everything fits on the screen.

        #141837
        Member
        PPC

          Please test the new theme at 1024×768 to confirm that everything fits on the screen.

          I’m not calling anyone lazy… but why not test that yourself?

          Sigh… with a small change the “antiX3″ slimski theme seems to work perfectly well, from the highest resolution my screen can handle (well above 1024×768), down to 800×600 (I think that’s the minimal resolution antiX supports, and probably there are not many screens with lower resolution than that still in service”.

          So, I attach the revised version of that theme.

          I ask anyone interest: please test this slimski theme – if not problem is found with it, I propose that it should be placed up for localization in transifex (if possible) and then be made the default slimski theme, to avoid user confusion, as much as possible. Of course, anticapitalista, or anyone, can alter the theme (for example, removing the explanation that folks should enter their user name and password and press enter. That obvious to some 98% of all adult humans that have used a computer before and it’s an extra string that requires being localized in almost 60 languages)

          @anticapitalista – if you are interested in using this theme as soon as possible, I can start working on localizing it in more languages (currently it’s fully localized only in English, pt and pt-br)

          P.

          • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by PPC.
          #141879
          Moderator
          Brian Masinick

            @PPC the login program itself is an executable image, but it ought to have some message file or message catalog associated with it in order that components can be localized.

            It’s been over two decades since I last worked directly on localization and it was on a UNIX system rather than a Linux system, but the same stuff that is in UTF-8 entities ought to be somewhere close to, or associated with, the place containing the localization.

            One of our devs must know the specific details; that’s the information I can provide; if I stumble on the actual location I’ll let you know.

            --
            Brian Masinick

            #141913
            Member
            PPC

              it ought to have some message file or message catalog associated with it in order that components can be localized.

              Dear Mr Masinick – don’t worry about that. The way slim/slimski themes work is this- they are a folder that contains a configuration file, the image used as “box” to enter data, the background image and… all the available localization files, named my the language’s code (ex: pt_br for Brazilian Portuguese) that list all used variables followed by their localization.
              To make a slimski theme available, using elevated privileges, copy the theme’s folder to /usr/share/slimski/themes/ and then the theme will be available the next time you start the Login manager configuration GUI, from the Control Center > Session Tab. You can select the new theme and “Apply” it instantly or press the “Test” button, to just take a look at it.

              Anyone can test any of my proposed themes (the one I hope will be adopted by anticapitalista is “antiX3b”, the last one I made available).

              EDIT: the reason this thread is in the “Localization” section of the Forum is because I began tacking the problem of warning clueless users on how to use F1 on the localization file, then thought about it and found it would be best to do that in all languages, altering the configuration file for the theme, that includes the english strings the theme uses…

              P.

              • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by PPC.
              • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by PPC.
              #141987
              Member
              marcelocripe

                Now that I have managed to carry out several tests on the “fixed-slimski-theme-antiX3b.zip” version, I can present my suggestions to make the texts that are aimed at users who have never seen antiX Linux in their lives even more educational and who come across “slimski” translated into the language “pt_BR”, but it still doesn’t clarify what needs to be done.
                The first issue is that if there is nothing written, the user moves the cursor on the screen with the aim of clicking on the text box. But there is no cursor in “slimski”, since it is not necessary to have the cursor on the screen to do the following actions:

                Enter the username and press the Enter key, then enter the user password and press the Enter key.

                This is my suggestion to be used even in the original text in English. As much as it may seem redundant or repetitive, think of it this way, users can only understand what is written. What is not written no human being is obliged to know. What is not written, no human being is forced to guess.

                I used the “slimski.theme” settings file that was modified by PPC in all themes and copied the “pt_BR” file to each of the folders of each of the themes, including themes that do not have translation (ax and flat ). The result was surprising, because even for themes that had never received texts in “pt_BR”, they were now displayed successfully. Some adjustments would be missing, such as the dark color in light themes and vice versa, moving the text box that receives the name and password a little lower and copying the files to the “ax” and “flat” folders. translations.

                Xunzi_23, I hadn’t gone into details, because I wanted to test and then return to this topic to bring more considerations regarding communication.

                I have been spreading antiX here in the metropolitan region of the state of São Paulo since June 2020, what people complain most to me is that almost everything is translated but is not completely understandable. Well, how can I construct perfectly understandable texts in “pt_BR” if the original text in “en” is not fully understandable. Someone might say, “it’s just that marcelocripe doesn’t know any language other than his own”, or “marcelocripe uses automatic translators and that’s why he doesn’t understand anything”. My answer to this is quite simple, “how can I understand what is not written?” or “how can I guess what wasn’t written?” I am able to try to understand the automatic translations of what is written, in the same way that the automatic translator is only able to translate the words that are written. What is not written will not be translated. (Does the last sentence clarify the difficulty in communication?)
                Communication only occurs between people when the sender wants the information to be fully understood by the receiver. And the receiver can only understand when I make an effort to be understood. An example of this is the effort I make to try to write fully understandable texts in “pt_BR” to be translated by a machine and still be understandable by native speakers of the target language (English, French, German, Russian, etc.).
                For communication to occur, texts cannot be ambiguous, texts need to make complete sense, have a beginning, middle and end so that communication can be successful.
                And finally, for written communication to occur, you cannot be lazy about writing. Will all 10 fingers fall off if I write a few more words in the text?
                Now I propose the following assumption, the “slimski” that was modified by the PPC was accepted and approved by the anticapitalista. Long texts are boring for experienced users who don’t need it to launch the desktop. My answer to this is that experienced users don’t even need to read what is written and that they will know exactly how to make “slimski” the way they prefer. Novice users press the F1 key by accident, just because it’s close to the 1 and 2 keys. When the desktop starts and it’s not zzz-IceWM, they don’t know what happened and are lost.
                Even though I have produced 39 long videos and 5 short videos about antiX, unfortunately people don’t watch the videos on the antiX Linux channel in Portuguese in the correct order, that is, from the first video to the most recent. Video 8 “Getting to know antiX Linux 23 Part 2”, where I explain every detail of how to switch between desktops, has half the number of views of video 7 “Getting to know antiX Linux 23 Part 1”. In other words, I will have to continue explaining in WhatsApp, Telegram and Facebook groups how to return to the zzz-IceWM desktop. But this could change, if it is clearly written what each action allows you to do in the “slimski” theme.

                Thank you very much PPC, for demonstrating how I can make antiX Linux even more educational in the “pt_BR” language.

                Note: This topic is similar to this Suggestions to make antiX Linux more educational.

                – – – – –

                Agora que eu consegui realizar vários testes da versão “fixed-slimski-theme-antiX3b.zip” eu posso apresentar as minhas sugestões para tornar ainda mais didático os textos que são direcionados para os usuários que nunca viram o antiX Linux na sua vida e que se deparam com o “slimski” traduzido para o idioma “pt_BR”, mas mesmo assim não esclarece o que é preciso ser feito.
                A primeira questão é que se não tem nada escrito, o usuário movimenta o cursor na tela com o objetivo de clicar na caixa de texto. Mas não existe o cursor no “slimski”, já que não é necessário ter o cursor na tela para fazer as seguinte ações:

                Digite o nome de usuário e pressione a tecla Enter, em seguida, digite a senha de usuário e pressione a tecla Enter.

                Esta é a minha sugestão para ser utilizada inclusive no texto original em idioma Inglês. Por mais que possa parecer ser redundante ou repetitivo, pense da seguinte forma, os usuários só podem compreender o que está escrito. O que não está escrito nenhum ser humano é obrigado a saber. O que não está escrito nenhum ser humano é obrigado a adivinhar.

                Eu utilizei o arquivo de configurações “slimski.theme” que foi modificado pelo PPC em todos os temas e copiei o arquivo “pt_BR” para cada uma das pastas de cada um dos temas, inclusive para os temas que não possuem tradução (ax e flat). O resultado foi surpreendente, porque mesmo para os temas que nunca haviam recebido os textos em “pt_BR”, agora foram exibidos com sucesso. Faltaria alguns ajustes, como por exemplo, a cor escura nos temas claros e vice-versa, mover a caixa de texto que recebe o nome e a senha um pouco para baixo e copiar para as pastas “ax” e “flat” os arquivos de traduções.

                Xunzi_23, eu não havia entrado em detalhes, porque eu queria testar para depois retornar neste tópico para trazer mais considerações a respeito da comunicação.

                Eu espalho o antiX aqui na região metropolitana do estado de São Paulo desde junho de 2020, o que mais as pessoas reclamam para mim é que quase tudo está traduzido mas não está totalmente compreensível. Pois bem, como eu posso construir textos perfeitamente compreensíveis em “pt_BR” se o texto original em “en” não está totalmente compreensível. Alguém poderá dizer, “é que o marcelocripe não sabe outro idioma além do dele”, ou “o marcelocripe utiliza os tradutores automáticos e é por isso que ele não entende nada”. A minha resposta para isso é bem simples, “como eu posso compreender o que não está escrito?” ou “como eu posso adivinhar o que não foi escrito?”. Eu sou capaz de tentar compreender as traduções automáticas do que está escrito, da mesma forma que o tradutor automático só é capaz de traduzir as palavras que estão escritas. O que não está escrito não será traduzido. (Será que a última frase esclarece a dificuldade na comunicação?)
                A comunicação só ocorre entre as pessoas quando o emissor quer que a informação seja totalmente compreendida pelo receptor. E só é possível o receptor compreender quando eu me esforço para ser compreendido. Um exemplo disso é o esforço que eu faço para tentar escrever textos totalmente compreensíveis em “pt_BR” para ser traduzido por uma máquina e mesmo assim ser compreensível pelos nativos do idioma de destino (inglês, francês, alemão, russo, etc).
                Para a comunicação ocorrer, os textos não podem sem ser ambíguos, os textos precisam fazer sentido completo, ter um começo, o meio e o fim para que a comunicação possa obter sucesso.
                E por fim, para ocorrer a comunicação escrita, não pode ter preguiça de escrever. Será que vai cair os 10 dedos das mãos se escrever algumas palavras a mais no texto?
                Agora eu proponho a seguinte suposição, o “slimski” que foi modificado pelo PPC foi aceito e aprovado pelo anticapitalista. Os textos longos são chatos para os usuários experientes que não precisam disso para iniciar a área de trabalho. A minha resposta para isso é que os usuários experientes não precisam nem ler o que está escrito e que eles saberão exatamente como tornar o “slimski” do jeito que eles preferem. Já os usuários iniciantes pressionam a tecla F1 sem querer, só porque está próxima da tecla 1 e 2. Quando a área de trabalho inicia e não é a zzz-IceWM, eles não sabem o que aconteceu e ficam perdidos.
                Por mais que eu tenha produzido 39 vídeos longos e 5 vídeos curtos sobre o antiX, infelizmente as pessoas não assistem os vídeos no canal antiX Linux em Português na ordem correta, ou seja, do primeiro vídeo até o mais recente. O vídeo 8 “Conhecendo o antiX Linux 23 Parte 2”, onde eu explico cada detalhe de como alternar entre as área de trabalho possui a metade da quantidade de visualizações do vídeo 7 “Conhecendo o antiX Linux 23 Parte 1”. Ou seja, eu vou ter que continuar explicando nos grupos do WhatsApp, Telegram e no Facebook como fazer para voltar para a área de trabalho zzz-IceWM. Mas isso pode mudar, se estiver escrito de forma clara o que cada ação permite fazer no tema do “slimski”

                Muito obrigado PPC, por demonstrar como eu posso deixar o antiX Linux ainda mais didático em idioma “pt_BR”.

                Observação: Este tópico é semelhante a este Sugestões para tornar o antiX Linux mais didático/educacional.

                #142016
                Member
                iznit

                  I’m not calling anyone lazy… but why not test that yourself?

                  Sigh… with a small change the “antiX3″ slimski theme seems to work perfectly well,

                  Interested to hear the nature of the “a small change”. The concern was that the “Tipo de…” and further lines of text would be clipped, offscreen, when displayed at lesser resolutions. My reason “why not test” is that I’m not the person developing and distributing the thing, better for you to see for yourself and adjust it if necessary. I hope you will understand that I did not mean to offend you.

                  #142226
                  Member
                  PPC

                    @iznit – sorry if my words appeared too harsh – it’s just frustrating, tackling a problem alone, asking for other people to test what I0m doing and then listening someone (that has the exact instructions on how to test something for themselves) say- “hey man, test this detail”… I’m thankful that you refered about testing in lower resolution screens that the one on the computer I adapted the theme on (that was something on my to do list, if you check my initial posts). There was no real “problem”, because all text, in slimski configuration files is placed in a percentage number in x and y axis, so something always appears say, at 20% of the height of the y axis. What happened what that the “transparent” upper border of the background for boxes used to input username and password was drawn above the initial text (that asks users to enter their username and password and press enter)- that image is only “pseudo-transparent” meaning that it allows users to see the background image but hide the text (i.e., the previous y coordinates used to display the box were so high up that if very large font were displayed on the first line, it got partly hidden by the box).

                    @Marcelocripe – I’m glad that you now have one more thing that you can personalize on the antiX installs that you do. Just be careful not to type too many instructions or they may not fit the screen, particularly in lower resolution screens- this has a workaround, you can use a new empty variable with the second line of text that you want to be displayed and place that just below the first line – but, to do do that you have to learn how the configuration file works).
                    Being ironic, I think you are tempted to write a treaty, something like this:
                    You are looking at your computer screen. If you don't know what a computer is (enter long rant about the notion of what a computer is)... If you don't know what a computer is (enter a long rant about the notion of what a screen is). You can use your keyboard (once again, explain that those plastic cubes with letters, numbers and other characters or commands are meant to be pressed to transmite information to the computer) to enter you user name (explain what a user name is)- if your user name is not already shown automatically in the first box-, press the Enter key (IMPORTANT NOTE!!!!- if another user name that is not yours is shown, please delete it and type your own user name- be careful, you don't have to enter your full name, just the name that identifies you on the antiX that is installed in this computer), then enter your user's password (explain what a password is) and press the Enter key again. IMPORTANT NOTE!!!- if you make any mistake while typing your username, you can delete what you typed in the user name field, if the cursor, that small vertical line, that shows where the next thing that you type will be displayed is, BUT if you noticed that you made a mistake in your username and the cursor is already in the password box, you have to press Enter- after a small moment you'll get an error and the cursor will, once again be on the username field, so you can correct it. IMPORTANT NOTE!!! Both usernames and passwords are case sensitive, this means that the text of a username or password with capital letters os a different than the text of the same username or password without capital letters (ex: Demo is not the same thing as demo, or dEmo, or DEmo or DEMo, or DEMO, etc). IMPORTANT NOTE!!! When you type your password you won't see what you are typing, just one * for each character that you type- that's not a bug, the computer is really getting the correct key that you pressed, just not showing it on the screen

                    Of course, you would have to use at least 3 synonymous for each new word that you use, to make sure anyone “understands” you. Of course, this would require some 2 or 3 log in screens, or else all that text would not fit…

                    Now more seriously:

                    My proposed “initial phrase” is far from perfect – users do not always have to type their password, not if the log in manager is setup so the username always is prefilled (ideal for single user systems, so folks just have to type their password and press enter).
                    The ideal text would be something like:
                    To log in, make sure the first field contains your username, press enter, type your password on the second field and press enter
                    It’s a shame it’s so long… this would remove most of the doubts anyone that has not used similar log in screens may have.
                    The information about what to do when you make a mistake typing your username or password is not just a joke – unlike most CLI apps, slimksi does not allow users to “jump between text fields” by pressing the Tab key. Once you are in the password field the only way that I know of to correct the username is really pressing Enter to get an error and the correct the username.

                    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by PPC.
                    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by PPC.
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