Slitaz: trying to do updating/installing software did my head in !!

Forum Forums General Other Distros Slitaz: trying to do updating/installing software did my head in !!

  • This topic has 45 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated Oct 29-5:37 pm by Brian Masinick.
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  • #40580
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    :D

    Yes, not “faulting” anyone at Slitaz, but when those kinds of questions have been asked here, ideas, links and help has been given, and I’ve been able to make progress. I try to pay it back by helping where I can as well.

    It just is what it is, I guess. Life is what you make of it, yourself. It feels good to be help with my own projects or ones needed by others who have a good idea, but don’t have the skills to make it appear on the screen and work.

    I appreciate your efforts! I keep encouraging people to do something. Not all of us are developers, but if we can write, or help someone out, or come up with ideas, or proof read the work of others, it all adds up. I’d love it if a few more people would add whatever little idea or contribution, as you have personally done more than once. Thank you!

    Brian Masinick

    #40585
    Member
    olsztyn
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    :D

    @olsztyn: Are there any areas where you feel that you have a sufficient amount of knowledge (maybe in one or two distinct areas)?
    If so, updating or adding current information in those areas would be a great service to the Linux community.

    I replied in details but my post, after first showing, then disappeared. I noticed it happens from time to time, not just to me, and after some time posts magically reappear…
    Unless you did not like my post (no clue why though) and deleted… In such case I understand, whatever the reason was…
    It was not a short post and I am not trying to recreate but I was just pointing to two important to antiX areas: Live and Frugals, and suggesting adding to antiX docs what was recently developed by christophe for booting Frugals using extlinux and related UEFI boot process. I would also add numerous enhancements by Xecure.
    Thanks and Regards…

    #40586
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    Brian Masinick
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    :D

    I’ll see if I can find a post that is not showing up. It’s a bug in the forum software that occasionally shows up. We try to make missing posts visible when we spot them.

    Brian Masinick

    #40587
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    olsztyn
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    :D

    I did not mean to ask you to waste your precious time on something like this. I just to let you know I did reply.
    Thanks and Regards….

    #40690
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    seaken64
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    :D

    I have dabbled with SliTaz. I find it harder to use than antiX or plain Debian. And I think the docs are good enough for what it is. I look at SliTaz as a distro with a limited target audience. And I look at antiX the same way. The audience is limited and it is expected that users will fit into a sort of “geeky” crowd that tend to experiment and develop stuff on their own. A lot like Slackware or Arch.

    At antiX we don’t look down our nose at new users or ignore them. But we don’t expect to nanny everyone into becoming a power Linux user by doing all the hard work for them. We share and encourage. But it is more common here to nudge someone to do some research on their own and then report back. Only after we know the person is taking their own responsibility seriously do we offer more details and guidance. That has long been the Linux way. The software is free but the responsibility is shared by everyone.

    In my opinion, the documentation is sufficient. It is most definitely NOT standardized and there is a lot of documentation that is unclear. I always said that I thought a lot of the instructions for Linux were written as if we knew what we do not know. But the information is there and Linux can be learned. And forums like this one can be of enormous help in sorting it all out. But I can pretty much guarantee that most of what is written and provided as documentation is not read ON PURPOSE! Many who claim to want to learn Linux and come here, or some other distro, are not interested in READING, or learning. They want something for free and they want it to work. They want it to be easy and do not want to work for it.

    For those of us who do care to learn and put in the work the documentation is good. If a club wants to improve on the documentation so that their members can get better support than the documentation can be copied and edited for use by the club. The general Linux community has already provided the needed documentation.

    And a forum like ours has a place called Tips and Tricks. This is used to expand the documentation. That is the place to share how to do stuff. And yes, a wiki could also be used. But believe me, it will be for our “club”. The general public is not interested in reading it.

    Seaken64

    #40719
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    olsztyn
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    :D

    I look at SliTaz as a distro with a limited target audience. And I look at antiX the same way. The audience is limited and it is expected that users will fit into a sort of “geeky” crowd that tend to experiment and develop stuff on their own. A lot like Slackware or Arch.

    Apart from professional use of very specific Linux distros in some server role (I have not heard of antiX being widely used in such role), and taking into consideration just desktop use, I would say that every one out of this vast multitude of Linux distros is a niche comparing to Windows. Perhaps something like Ubuntu might be a bigger niche than antiX, being made a turnkey distro, but none of these desktop distros is used for actual work to earn your living day to day…
    I do agree with your statement that whether it is SliTaz or antiX or even Ubuntu (my addition), they are mostly for geeks to play and experiment and with some frugal distros such as antiX also to have a satisfaction of bringing an old laptop back to life. For me such interest is antiX Live/Frugal, running from a little USB plug as a full featured system, which I do not think Windows or Ubuntu can do…
    But whether it is SliTaz or TinyCore or another less common distro, unfortunately they tend to fade away in the course of time after the owner retires.
    So I hope antiX leader, hopefully being about 20 years old, is full of energy to aggressively continue evolution of this excellent ‘niche’ distro for many decades to come…

    Strange… Just noticed the quote is showing as mine but it was in fact from seaken64. Strange defects happen with some posts… Maybe this forum is run on Windows or Ubuntu system?

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by olsztyn.
    #40721
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista
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    :D

    [snip] …
    Apart from professional use of very specific Linux distros in some server role (I have not heard of antiX being widely used in such role),

    Just to let you know that the default antiX repos debs are on a server running antiX.

    [snip] …So I hope antiX leader, hopefully being about 20 years old, is full of energy to aggressively continue evolution of this excellent ‘niche’ distro for many decades to come…

    My 20’s were a long time ago, but I do feel like I have the energy and enthusiasm to keep going for a long while yet, mainly because of the appreciation of our work on antiX that I see in these forums (and elsewhere).

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #40725
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    olsztyn
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    :D

    Just to let you know that the default antiX repos debs are on a server running antiX.

    I did not know this but I knew antiX is capable of about anything you throw at it…

    My 20’s were a long time ago, but I do feel like I have the energy and enthusiasm to keep going for a long while yet, mainly because of the appreciation of our work on antiX that I see in these forums (and elsewhere).

    Thank you! As users, we greatly appreciate commitment and hard work of all the antiX team. I am happy to hear this wonderful work will continue for sure…
    Thanks and Regards…

    #40727
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    :D

    anticapitalista, I *KNOW* that you can definitely ROCK this software like a kid, and you’ve done it for a long time!

    Are you still working in academia, and if so, is any of it as a teacher or instructor?

    At one time I did a few temporary “gigs” teaching public school students. At least once, I had classes of children ranging from “pre-school” (3-5 years old) and all ages between 3 and 18. In other places, such as places of worship and on the job, helping, mentoring, guiding, or actual teaching, I’ve done a bit of that too, but all of it, other than “helping out” with questions, is in the past.

    Most of the stuff I talk about, because I’m no longer young in age, is sharing past, so it’s therefore software “history”. It’s the interaction with people (and their interaction with software) that continues to interest me.

    Brian Masinick

    #43995
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    PDP-8
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    :D

    One interesting thing I think some overlook about Slitaz is the integration of their system software utilities using a browser/http/scripting rather than programming them with a gui toolkit. Ie, if one is a web developer, they can probably whip up some graphical utilities faster than tcl/tk (aging myself), and other more modern graphical toolkits.

    The on-board browser as supplied is Midori, which seems to be enough to work with the system utilities – although that may not be sufficient for actual *web* browsing in today’s world, Midori performed well enough to drive the system utils locally.

    I’m kind of surprised this concept isn’t seen much elsewhere in other distros. Instead of devs having to program using custom gui’s, just use a browser interface instead. Seems like a smart idea, but I must be missing something.

    #44012
    Moderator
    BobC
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    :D

    PDP-8,

    So what do they use to create the applications?

    #44022
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    :D

    Web-based utilities are not new at all.

    I remember a couple of distributions in the late 1990s to early 2000s that had a Web-based system interface.

    It’s been a long time since and I can’t be certain which distributions had this feature, but what I do have in my memory suggests that it was a major distribution at the time. It wasn’t a fully online interface, it was simply a local html interface using a browser to access the information.

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by Brian Masinick.

    Brian Masinick

    #44026
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    :D

    https://resources.infosecinstitute.com/topic/dangers-web-management/ recommends caution in using Web-based management tools “… under no circumstances should these be open to the world and the internet.”

    CISCO, a major networking company, has Web-based network management tools; again, if used within a protected (firewall, closed to the public) site, it can be useful and some of the safety concerns mitigated:
    https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/switches/lan/catalyst3850/software/release/3se/consolidated_guide/b_consolidated_3850_3se_cg_chapter_010.html

    As I searched I found many other similar references, so Web-based services are quite common.

    Brian Masinick

    #44032
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    skidoo
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    :D

    So what do they use to create the applications?

    SliTaz mentions lighttpd web server, mpd as a music server, dropbear as ssh daemon, and x11vnc

    Not specific to slitaz, historically the server-side stack has been “LAMP”.
    (linux + Apache web server + mySQL db engine + perl)

    During the past 2 decades, PHP (and to a lesser degree, python) has largely displaced perl.
    Similarly, mariaDB (or couchDB or others) has displaced mySQL; lighttpd has displaced Apache.
    A separate tier of more highly-scalable components exist, but I’m not addressing them here.

    The “recoll” search indexer (destop version, Qt gui, available as a debian pkg) has a companion python -driven web interface which is easy to setup. For other application types (groupware, content management (CMS) and “blogging”, image galleries, etc) you can see — and test drive — some live demos at https://www.opensourcecms.com/. Nearly all “web hosting providers” nowadays provide EZ install for a gamut of applications, installed via cPanel or Plesk or Virtualmin… and many hosters offer free, 30-day no hassle test-drive of their hosting ~~ you can tinker with one-click installation of over 100 various applications to check out their functionality.

    Virtualmin utilizes Webmin (FOSS) and several of the “home/business server -oriented linux distros” use it as the sysadmin’s “remote administration front-end”. As I type this, Koozali SME Server comes to mind but I don’t recall whether that distro is indeed using Webmin.

    Across the recent few years, “all in a box” solutions seem to be displacing “individually selected and individually installed server applications”. Examples: FreedomBox (I do not favor, cannot recommend), Nextcloud (I admire, but would not personally use), and DietPi (I have test-driven, and can recommend). The website “ownyourbits.com” contains walkthrough tutorial articles on configuring n using various apps, and the DietPi forum contains posts explaining “what [each individual app] is, what it does, what it looks like” for dozens of in-a-box client/server applications.

    #44039
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    :D

    Brian:

    I remember a couple of distributions in the late 1990s to early 2000s that had a Web-based system interface.

    Skidoo:

    Virtualmin utilizes Webmin (FOSS) and several of the “home/business server -oriented linux distros” use it as the sysadmin’s “remote administration front-end”.

    Thank you skidoo! Webmin is the exact Web-based system administration tool that I was thinking of. I’m thankful for people like you with excellent skills in technology who also have a much better memory than I do these days. Thanks again!

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by Brian Masinick.

    Brian Masinick

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