- This topic has 20 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated Sep 16-5:02 pm by Anonymous.
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Robin
Please, dear developers. Don’t let us stab in the dark and don’t forget us when preparing new files for translation upload. Please make use of
developers notes
and
string instructions.
as we are “lost in translation” without these.So, to which meaning should get translated
“Type to filter…” (app-select, string 3)
Meaning A: “Start typing some keywords in a field in order to filter some output”
Meaning B: “Chose type of filter to be applied“
Meaning C: “Chose a type, which is to be filtered”Really, I don’t have the faintest idea, and there is no context given.
“Not sure what to do with value $?” (desktop-session-menu-window, string 6)
is this $? meant to represent the wellknown bash special parameter “$?” (as I presume), or is this $ sign some kind of placeholder within a sentence meant as a question (as @Wallon translated to in french language? I can’t decide. Maybe a native English speaker immediately would realise whether this was intended to be understood as a correct English question. For me, a non native speaker this looks very well like a question, asking the user.“Disable Window:3” (desktop-session-menu-window, strings 4 and 5) Probably the “3” is meant as a placeholder. But does the colon also belong to it (so reads the placeholder “:3”, or is this colon part of a translatable sentence? Leading to the question: May it get separated from the “3” or not. No idea.
Developer instructions need to be set by developers while creating the language template file (.pot), as the word says 🙂 For an example how this is done please see this .pot file, it’s the one from unplugdrive. There is no need to describe every single string, maybe I did some kind of overkill here, but it was for the first time applying them. All lines starting by colon+dot+blank are recognised by transifex as developers notes of the subsequent string.
:.{blank}Developers note Text...
So, please write some few lines to these files before uploading, about how a string is to be understood in case of ambiguousness, and whether a special character is meant to be translated or not. Bear in mind not all translators have some experience in programming or scripting.String instructions can be added as “per string” directly in transifex editor after clicking on “context” tab in right bottom corner of the page. They can get added, redacted and removed at any time. (Only language coordinators can modify these).
Many thanks.
Attachments:
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
marcelocripe
Dear Robin,
It is very necessary not to have the notes and comments from the programmers to the translators.
I’ll try to explain to you what I could understand by guessing and testing how “App Select” works. I take this opportunity to leave another question: How can a translator test EVERYTHING before making the necessary adaptations and adjustments to the texts to be translated?
The text “Type to filter…” is displayed in the search bar or search bar of “App Select” and this text will disappear as soon as the user starts typing the first letter in this bar. (As you can see in “pt-BR”/”pt” there are two forms, while the translator only provides one form in “en”. Please check my text in “pt-BR” translated directly to “de”)
As the translation of the translators “Type to filter…” (“Digite para filtrar…”) does not make coherent/complete sense in pt-BR, I described the action, I adapted it to “Type here to search…” (“Digite aqui para pesquisar…”)
I hope my explanation is correct and that it helps you.
marcelocripe
———-
Caro Robin,
Faz muita falta não ter as notas e comentários dos programadores aos tradutores.
Eu vou tentar te explicar o que eu consegui compreender adivinhando e testando o funcionamento do “App Select”. Aproveito para deixar outra pergunta: Como um tradutor poderá testar TUDO antes de fazer as adaptações e adequações necessárias nos textos a serem traduzidos?
O texto “Type to filter…” é exibido na barra de pesquisa ou barra de busca do “App Select” e este texto sumirá assim que o usuário começar a digitar a primeira letra nesta barra. (Como pode perceber em “pt-BR”/”pt” existem duas formas, enquanto que o tradutor disponibiliza apenas uma forma em “en”. Por favor verifique o meu texto em “pt-BR” traduzido diretamente para “de”)
Como a tradução dos tradutores “Digite para filtrar…” não faz sentido coerente/completo em pt-BR, eu descrevi a ação, eu adaptei para “Digite aqui para pesquisar…”
Eu espero que a minha explicação esteja correta e que te ajude.
marcelocripe
The text “Type to filter…” is displayed in the search bar
OK, then It’s actually about keying in something into a field.
So I’ll add a string instruction on transifex for all the others lost in translation. 🙂
Many thanks, Marcelo!P.S. This solves us the first riddle. Who steps in for the next?
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
Anonymous
Robin, your message is well stated.
Bear in mind not all translators have some experience in programming or scripting.
Unfortunately, the heroes who volunteer to create the transifex project(s) are typically not the authors of all the various programs ~~ programs written in XX various languages ~~ so they are probably at a loss to understand the code in order to fill in “developer notes”.
Already mentioned in another topic:
If the translation site, or translation software, provided a split-pane view so that translators could see code, see the strings in place within the context of the code, even without proficiency in the programming language syntax I believe the translators could gain some insight.If the translation site does not expose filename + lineNumber for each given string, and it seems like it does not… you may be able to glean additional details by downloading the source code for the program you are translating, and inspect the filename + lineNumber mentioned in the .pot or .po file.
I would agree that you should not be required to retrieve + inspect the source code to gain insight… but it’s not an ideal world. I’m just explaining what I thing might be helpful for you when “developer notes” are absent.
One of those screenshots shows “unplugdrive”, so I guess your message is directed toward its developer(s). Most of the several people who have contributed to development of that script are no longer present, cannot hear your message. The latest among the folks involved, the current “heroes”, I hope they can hear your message without feeling defensive or frustrated.
Hi skidoo,
Unfortunately, the heroes who volunteer to create the transifex project(s) are typically not the authors of all the various programs
I do very well know what you are talking of, sitting myself between this very pair of chairs most of the time.
One of those screenshots shows “unplugdrive”, so I guess your message is directed toward it developer(s).
No. This is not directed towards anybody, it is a general problem we face on each new translation upload again.
Most of the several people who have contributed to development of that script are no longer present, cannot hear your message. The latest among the folks involved, the current “heroes”, I hope they can hear your message without feeling defensive or frustrated.
Did you mix up something? unplugdrive was among the first .pot files fully featured with developers notes (Hence I have linked its .pot file as an example, how these notes are applied, and the screenshots demonstrate the result from adding them, i.e. how these notes look like in transifex translation editor.) And nobody should feel discouraged or frustrated by my petition, this was not my intention. It was meant for a better geared cooperation, so people (original developers, yes, but mainly anybody who has laid his hands on the code later on) should feel encouraged to add some developers notes to the files when noticing something ambiguous in strings. Otherwise each translator in any language will face the same problem, again and again later in process. The meaning and details about formatting, meaning of special characters need clarification at some point, the earlier in process the better.
From my scripting experience I can guess most things, but I don’t have the means to install, start or test most of the software I translate.
Nevertheless I do my very best to add these missing instructions, wherever I notice it could be usefull. But people who have seen the thing running already could add most of the so called developers notes much more easily.you may be able to glean additional details by downloading the source code for the program you are translating, and inspect the filename
Unfortunately this doesn’t correlate to each other, since C source code (or any other compiled code) consists of multiple source files; the strings for translation are within a single .pot file usually, and moreover some translations files are merged from more than one program for some reason. So nobody who didn’t read and understand the interdependence of all these different files and parts of source code can make anything of it. I have spent hours and hours already on searching within some of them, inspecting source code line by line in order to figure what a given string in question for translation is meant for. Well, within a single script file all this is not a problem, string instructions or developers notes for these I’m going to fill in myself by and by, as spare time allows.
So, please take this as what it was meant: An encouragement to add these instructions whenever there is a chance to do it.
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
Xecure
Sorry for the inconveniences. I will try to address all issues today and add developer notes now and in the future.
moreover some translations files are merged from more than one program for some reason
Sorry for that. I thought it a good idea to have all translations for the same package in one file, to take advantage or repeating strings. I will separate them to different files and also do so for already translated strings so that no effort is lost.
I hope I can have this done by the end of the day.
Again, sorry for the inconveniences.
antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.I thought it a good idea to have all translations for the same package in one file,
This IS a good idea. I believe you misread me. This is the correct way, all files from one package are meant to be in one translation file, so please don’t split them up! And all you did was fine, no need to modify anything! And for the notes/instructions: no hurry! Remember, we do all this volunteer, and we are one team. You are not expected to do this all on your own.
What I had in mind concerning merged files from different programs was some translation resource I came across earlier on antiX development, not in antix contribs.
No need to be sorry, Xecure! Really.
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
Xecure
I have received more than one message requesting to split the contribs-goodies translation file into different files, each for the specific script, so don’t worry about it. It probably makes sense for users who only want one of the scripts and not all.
I will try to have it done today. Also, developer comments are something I should have added initially since you had already mentioned it to me in the past. I just wasn’t thinking straight.
antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.
Wallon
Dear Xecure,
Regarding “desktop-session-menu-window”, thank you for reviewing the French translations of strings 4, 5 and 6.
Best regards,
Wallon
Xecure
I still haven divided the contribs-goodies translations, but the other changes proposed by Robin are done.
Summary: Now all string I believe could lead to confusion fro app-select, desktop-session-menu-window and slimski-theme have developer comments.
I have also removed the problematic “:2” “:3” string entries and have made them separate from the translatable strings in “desktop-session-menu-window”, brought to attention by Wallon and Robin. On the weekend I will send a merge request to antix-linux git project for both desktop-session-antix and app-select to include the translations (and possibly also autogenerated translations, I will see how this goes).
I will also merge the slimski-theme translations to the git project and build for 32 and 64 bits. I am having trouble getting it to start on antiX21b1-runit, and I have yet to test it in a21b1-sysvinit. If I cannot figure it out I will ask skidoo for advise.
antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.>>>> I am having trouble getting it to start on antiX21b1-runit
An essential initscript is provided in the slimski package.
An equivalent to the sysV initscript will be required under runit,
to check for “lang=” given in /proc/cmdline and export $BLANG environment variable.
If it wasn’t given on the bootline, the initscript should just export $BLANG=””
( slimski expects a $BLANG env var to exist )marcelocripe
I thank everyone for this union. This team is fantastic!
I hope that all administrators and programmers have understood the good intention of Robin’s initial, this is all for the good of communication, so that everyone can have antiX increasingly translated and so, antiX grows and the community, too. Developers and programmers who manage to understand the importance of translations and that translators are their interlocutors in other languages will certainly start to include comments. But, I think, we always have this space in the forum to talk about phrases that cause difficulties to be translated or understood in other languages, when communication occurs with satisfaction, we certainly get very close to 100% of communication, we overcome the ” linguistic chasms” that exist between languages. If I reach 99.99% of my communication goal, certainly speakers of my language will be able to understand the programs and will not be as distressed as I am when I cannot understand programs that are in a different language than mine.
Separating the 3 ‘contribs-goodies’ programs for each file, in my opinion is much better in the long run, especially in case of growth of each program, as well as avoiding the confusion of translators by having 3 different programs in the same archive. What do you think about including in these separate files the texts that will be used in the ‘.desktop’ file. Or would that be mixing different content? We need to think about the ‘.desktop’ files of all the programs so that we can include the translations in the antiX menus when these programs are installed in the operating system.
Xecure, do not fall into exhaustion, we can and want to help.
———-
Eu agradeço a todos por esta união. Esta equipe é fantástica!
Eu espero que todos os administradores e programadores tenham compreendido a boa intenção da inicial do Robin, isso tudo é para o bem da comunicação, para que todos possam ter o antiX cada vez mais traduzido e assim, o antiX cresce e a comunidade, também. Os desenvolvedores e programadores conseguindo compreender a importância das traduções e que os tradutores são os seus interlocutores em outros idiomas, certamente passarão a incluir os comentários. Mas, eu penso que, temos sempre ter este espaço no fórum para conversarmos sobre as frases que causam dificuldades para serem traduzidas ou compreendidas em outros idiomas, quando a comunicação ocorre com satisfação, certamente chegamos muito próximo do 100% da comunicação, superamos os “abismos” linguísticos que existem entre os idiomas. Se eu chegar a 99,99% da minha meta na comunicação, certamente os falantes do meu idioma poderão compreender os programas e não ficarão angustiados como eu fico, quando eu não consigo entender os programas que estão em idioma diferente do meu.
Separar os 3 programas do ‘contribs-goodies’ para cada arquivo, na minha opinião é muito melhor a longo prazo, principalmente em caso de crescimento de cada um dos programas, bem como evita a confusão dos tradutores por ter 3 programas diferentes em um mesmo arquivo. O que vocês acham de incluirmos nestes arquivos separados os textos que serão utilizados no arquivo ‘.desktop’. Ou isso seria misturar conteúdos diferentes? Precisamos pensar nos arquivos ‘.desktop’ de todos os programas para podermos incluir as traduções nos menus do antiX, quando estes programas forem instalados no sistema operacional.
Xecure, não caia na exaustão, podemos e queremos ajudar.
Xecure
>>>> I am having trouble getting it to start on antiX21b1-runit
An essential initscript is provided in the slimski package.
An equivalent to the sysV initscript will be required under runit,
to check for “lang=” given in /proc/cmdline and export $BLANG environment variable.
If it wasn’t given on the bootline, the initscript should just export $BLANG=””
( slimski expects a $BLANG env var to exist )Thanks. I got it set up with a little hack, but it works until I figure out how to better do runit services.
I think there is a line that should be commented out in the init script:
bl=$(cat /proc/cmdline)
which is just after the awk command you mention to get the lang bot parameter.antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.Erratum
Correct syntax for developer notes described in the starting post of this thread is
#.{blank}Developers note Text...Sorry for the inconvenience! I’ve mixed up then two different lines and meanings.
Robin
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
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