Split: Slitaz – into – Better Linux Documentation

Forum Forums General Other Distros Split: Slitaz – into – Better Linux Documentation

  • This topic has 28 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated Aug 22-11:42 am by Brian Masinick.
Viewing 14 posts - 16 through 29 (of 29 total)
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  • #40577
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    I think it would make more sense to just have each distro have its own wiki, and if that distro feeds from another distro, then reference that parent distro’s wiki.

    Thus because antiX and MX are Debian derivatives, the Debian wiki would be referenced as a secondary source of information.

    My guess is that trying to get one giant “Linux” wiki would end up a mess, where the individual distros know their own systems. Different distro’s and even versions of those distros have different answers for the same problems. Imagine a newb trying to figure out which answer to work from?

    I think the wiki is useful as a standard form of documentation and FAQ info that covers the simpler or most common problems, and more problems/solutions could be added as they occurred and were resolved.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    I’m inclined to agree with you. TLDP, The Linux Documentation Project has TONS of fairly generic stuff; I reviewed several of them, and while they are not specific to antiX, MX Linux, and not many even directly refer to Debian Linux, all three: antiX, MX Linux, and Debian Linux have their own sources of documentation that is pretty good.

    For the real beginner, there are plenty of good books, available both in print and in various online forms that provide fundamentals. Some are even appropriate for either Linux or UNIX learning, because there is quite a bit of overlap between them, but when it comes to administering a system, every different distribution has at least a few things that separate it from the countless variations, so those things are best handled by each distribution effort.

    So let’s continue to “take care of our own space” by asking questions, requesting clarity, providing suggestions, ideas, or even volunteering to improve something, as several people have been doing.

    Anyone who has comments or complaints about overall Linux documentation should contact the authors of those documents or write a new document themselves and publish it. That’s how the real work gets done.

    Look at people like Dave, BobC, PDP-8, Xecure, Bitjam, and others in this family. A couple of these individuals have either written things for development or supported the work, whether they were “on the team” or not, and others have also contributed over the years, and of course, our leader anticapitalista, who originally volunteered a small project, antiX, to the MEPIS project, has since helped develop both MX Linux and antiX.

    We are not all as skilled as anticapitalista or the other contributors, but we can each do one or two things when we spot them. You’d be surprised how it all “adds up”. Please, once again, consider those “little” contributions – writing a simple script, documenting your favorite feature, helping people solve problems, promoting our software – collectively it makes a great deal of difference!

    Brian Masinick

    #40588
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    skidoo
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    :D

    @olsztyn

    Here are 3 free WP plugins which may be suitable for creating antixforum.com -hosted wiki (aka knowledgebase)
    https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-knowledgebase/
    https://wordpress.org/plugins/helppress/
    https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-wiki-that-doesnt-suck/

    Compare their features, choose your fave, then send a pm to anticapitalista asking if he’ll install it so we can give it a trial run
    (if it doesn’t suit, poof, uninstall and replace it with one of the other candidates, eh)

    If the plugin supports adding comments to a given “wiki” page, I expect that feature should be switched to OFF in the config.
    (New comments posted to wiki pages would not be noticed until someone [admin role?] reviewed a “new comments” WP dashboard page.)

    #40590
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    olsztyn
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    :D

    @ skidoo:
    Thanks… I will review.

    #40591
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    Xecure
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    :D

    Instead of giving extra work to the dev team and adding to the server costs, I think we could use one of the free wiki sites around.

    Some time ago I researched this exact idea and concluded that the best sites were:
    wikidot – uses their own (example: scp-wiki.wikidot.com)
    miraheze – uses mediawiki (example: allthetropes.miraheze.org and tme.miraheze.org)
    shoutwiki – uses mediawiki (example: lego.shoutwiki.com)

    If someone has a better idea, please recommend.

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by Xecure. Reason: fix link
    #40594
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    BobC
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    :D

    Yes, I looked at TLDP and notice that the pages are pretty out of date, and it’s likely the newb’s might not notice that and get into trouble by trying to follow 10 year old instructions.

    Maybe the wiki is a good idea for certain things where a checklist instruction makes sense.

    I think most newb people would appreciate a screen where they can find current (or version specific) simple checklist instruction as necessary, and if possible a link to a youtube video showing how to set something up or perform a task with subtitles that they can display in their own language.

    This probably isn’t worth doing for most things, but for example, too many newb people have had trouble getting WiFi working it seems… This has already been covered many times here, for example, and must be elsewhere too, but why can’t or don’t they find it, if it is?

    #40595
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista
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    :D

    We already have a wiki (shared with MX Linux).

    https://mxlinux.org/wiki/

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #40598
    Member
    skidoo
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    :D

    only STAFF can add/edit the pages of the MX/antiX wiki.

    If someone has a better idea, please recommend.

    The “better idea” behind my recommendation in earlier post is that any logged-in antixforum user would be able to add/edit a set of user-maintained wiki (knowledgebase) pages.

    #40606
    Moderator
    ModdIt
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    :D

    skidoo wrote:
    The “better idea” behind my recommendation in earlier post is that any logged-in antixforum user
    would be able to add/edit a set of user-maintained wiki (knowledgebase) pages.

    i agree, kids too, so many questions are in many cases repeated because if search terms are not exact
    enough relevant posts/solutions are not found.
    The shared/separate MX/Antix forum is not as obvious as it might be, we only found it by accident
    when some users wanted other desktops/MX because of DW Review rating.

    None of us knew TLDP.

    @anticapitalista please do not forget you and others have lived and developed this fantastic project antix/MX, before
    that Mepis for many years. From that position knowledge level and competence exceeds by far that of newer users
    as well as many who have used computers with linux for decades.
    or both

    Suggestions we make are not to criticise what exists, just hopefuly in the end to help fugitives from redmond or planet buntu/
    mint to get an Antix installation setup to meet their needs. Fugitives from Manjaro not forgotten, that is the murky hole
    where moddits came from after yet another non recoverable failed update.

    A wiki/knowledge base would help if setup and config themes are collected and condensed rather than gems hidden in
    long threads.

    We moddermen and ladies would, as non experts if allowed do our best to help with that.
    Time allowing m8st be said. School attendance starts next week for many,
    for some first University year. There if they need help that comes first for the old Moddit.

    We also hope rising covid rates will not hit as badly as early this year.

    BobC mentioned Libreoffice, up to 6.4 the documentation is pretty good. for 7xx some things, in the interface or deep
    in settings we occasionaly need a crystal ball. Basics are still all good.
    We would do our best to help with that, time allowing. School attendance starts next week for many, for some first
    University year. There if they need help that comes first for the old Moddit.

    thanks to all chipping in with help and ideas, it is very much appreciated.

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by ModdIt.
    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by ModdIt.
    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by ModdIt.
    #40607
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista
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    :D

    @olsztyn

    Here are 3 free WP plugins which may be suitable for creating antixforum.com -hosted wiki (aka knowledgebase)
    https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-knowledgebase/
    https://wordpress.org/plugins/helppress/
    https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-wiki-that-doesnt-suck/

    Compare their features, choose your fave, then send a pm to anticapitalista asking if he’ll install it so we can give it a trial run
    (if it doesn’t suit, poof, uninstall and replace it with one of the other candidates, eh)

    If the plugin supports adding comments to a given “wiki” page, I expect that feature should be switched to OFF in the config.
    (New comments posted to wiki pages would not be noticed until someone [admin role?] reviewed a “new comments” WP dashboard page.)

    Sounds like a good idea.
    I had forgotten the the existing antiX/MX wiki was ‘closed’.

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #40611
    Member
    Xecure
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    :D

    The “better idea” behind my recommendation in earlier post is that any logged-in antixforum user would be able to add/edit a set of user-maintained wiki (knowledgebase) pages.

    The shared/separate MX/Antix forum is not as obvious as it might be, we only found it by accident
    when some users wanted other desktops/MX because of DW Review rating.

    It is a good idea, but has some limitations (that is the reason I proposed an external site/service). ModdIt already shared one of them. People don’t know of the existence of this forum. It goes to the point that the facebook users that belong to the antiX Linux Facebook Public Group seem to live in a parallel universe where the antiX forum doesn’t exist. Even when sharing a link to a solution in the forum to help them, it is ignored.

    antixforum.com (not talking about Old Forum Archive) is not indexed by any search engine (specially not google). When a user searches for problems with antiX, first they find the FAQ, then maybe the Old Forum Archive, and finally the find MX Linux forum. They may register in the MX linux forum and then they ask for help there.

    Sometimes (maybe this doesn’t happen anymore), a user can register an account but never get an activation/confirmation email. This is not fiction, as this is what happened to me the first time (over a year ago). I had to apply 3 times for “I lost my password” before finally I received an email with a link to “reset my password”. And this was because I was persistent, as I waited for a few hours each time I asked to reset my password (took over 2 days to finally be able to access the forum with my account). But, as I said, maybe this was solved long ago.

    So, if an internal wiki is built, we must be sure it is indexed by popular search engines (even if the forum part of the site is not). We already know what we will be writing there, but new users don’t. It is for them that we will create the wiki articles (I will definitely collaborate with this).

    Sounds like a good idea.
    I had forgotten the the existing antiX/MX wiki was ‘closed’.

    Thank you for considering it. If it becomes a reality, I will help as best I can.

    By the way, this came up last year in the MX forum, and skidoo wrote:

    single sign-on (forum+wiki) would facilitate contributor participation.
    The author of the yada wiki component, mentioned by rasat, describes use of a separate “Advanced Access Manager” WP plugin to handle permissions, so that logged in members can edit wiki but cannot author “WP posts” webtng.com/allowing-site-members-create-wiki-content/

    #40614
    Member
    olsztyn
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    :D

    @olsztyn

    Here are 3 free WP plugins which may be suitable for creating antixforum.com -hosted wiki (aka knowledgebase)
    https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-knowledgebase/
    https://wordpress.org/plugins/helppress/
    https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-wiki-that-doesnt-suck/

    Compare their features, choose your fave,

    @ skidoo:
    I have not done full evaluation of the above three. If this plan is still on the plate I have done a quick look at formats, popularity and degree these are maintained however.
    It appears to me the third one seems pretty much the least worth recommendation and the first one the most.
    Quick summary:
    1. Format good. The most popular by far. Maintained frequently. Appears to have most interest among users.
    2. Format appears to be good. Far less popular than the first one. Much less frequently updated. Some interest among users.
    3. Format seems OK. The least popular. Almost never updated – last time seven years ago.
    Some snapshots (lost format, so just text) of these attributes:
    1:
    Version:1.2.4 Last updated:1 month ago Active installations:4,000+ WordPress Version:4.7 or higher
    2:
    Version:3.1.3 Last updated:10 months ago Active installations:90+ WordPress Version:4.4 or higher
    3:
    Version:0.9.2 Last updated:7 years ago Active installations:20+ WordPress Version:3.1 or higher

    To stress again – this is not a formal evaluation but just a quick look…
    Regards.

    #40619
    Moderator
    ModdIt
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    :D

    Tried to register on the MX/AntiX forum a long time ago. Gave up, several tries never got a confirmation.

    Prefer one system one forum, following a problem across forums, posts is a pain in the rear. Sad because
    several very competent persons only post information or answers in MX.

    Be nice to fix that issue. I think a forum merge MX/Antix might not be the best idea, better in my humble
    opinion, close down the confusing doubling and bring users and devs together in one place.

    The present setup encourages double posts and further splintering. If Farcebook is included Treble postings.

    antiX Linux Facebook Public Group, no go for me and many users here in Germany since it became
    clear that facebook steals phone numbers and contacts, probably more.

    Facebook and AntiX are light years apart, we fail to understand that an open platform is not encouraged.

    #40625
    Member
    olsztyn
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    :D

    antiX Linux Facebook Public Group, no go for me and many users here in Germany since it became
    clear that facebook steals phone numbers and contacts, probably more.

    I am in US and share the same opinion. Never had facebook and never will. Not only these megacorporations steal your personal info (some critical to security) but also they serve political agenda to destabilize nations and eradicate any freedom of speech. They want to control people and their opinions and those who express opinions not to their political liking will have their accounts closed.

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by olsztyn.
    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by olsztyn.
    #40636
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    :D

    I personally think that we may have a couple of potentially conflicting agendas going on here.

    On one hand, we want to document our own effort well. Actually, I think that we already do, both in this forum and in our release video work performed by Dolphin Oracle. As far as documentation and help sites, I can already think of THREE of them that have at least SOME things that are relevant to antiX: 1) This forum, 2) The MX Forum, and 3) LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux – Distributions antiX / MX Linux

    I have no problem with having information in THREE places; people can find us and ask us questions in any of the places. Whoever happens to read one of the sites can get their questions answered – or go looking for them elsewhere. The truth is that we know that if people ACTUALLY READ – up front – the information that we readily provide, there may only be a few, occasional “clarification” question – answers to help newcomers better understand the terminology. The reality is that people usually do not hunt down answers, nor do most people experiment to find solutions. It is usually either engineering (or inquisitive) types who do these things.

    Therefore, from the standpoint of our own distribution, I think that collectively we do a credible job. It’s the OVERALL documentation effort that has fallen down a bit. “The Linux Documentation Project”, TLDP, http://tldp.org/, did a very good job 15-20 years ago establishing decent base documentation, but the overall project has had very little incremental maintenance. That’s not the SPECIFIC responsibility of this organization, but it COULD be something that a few people, who are still interesting in restoring this work to a more current state, might consider doing. IF that happens, it IS NOT necessarily a project goal or project responsibility here UNLESS we create a small offshoot project descending from this team that decides to make it their charter to update overall Linux documentation.

    If anyone feels strongly enough about an endeavor of that kind and wants to spearhead it, I’d be happy to be an occasional contributor, and certainly a proof reader, of any work that takes place, but I am retired and I am not planning to make such an effort a retirement career; I offer only ideas, occasional encouragement, and the promise to review (and bless) anything that is done with the intention to “do it right”. Otherwise, I may, IF I happen to SEE something that needs an update, MAY provide whatever I happen to encounter with a high quality update.

    Brian Masinick

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