Step by step guide to install antiX-Base

Forum Forums New users New Users and General Questions Step by step guide to install antiX-Base

  • This topic has 35 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated Oct 26-9:24 pm by AA BB.
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 35 total)
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  • #41344
    Moderator
    Brian MasinickBrian Masinick

    The specifics that skidoo mentions in post #41338 are very important. Anything in a directory owned by root is subject to change.
    Suppose you install a new version of the operating system. You can be 100% certain that any modified programs will overwrite previous programs and their associated configuration. With antiX, there is a choice to create a new file system or reuse the existing filesystem when you install a new version. If you create a new file system you risk losing 100% of any file you have not explicitly saved in a file system not created or owned by the distribution.

    In a Frugal setup, you are going to start over every time with everything on the system with the exception of anything you save on another device with persistence.

    You can see the pattern – if you save something elsewhere, on removable media – different media than the system you are using to install, or a different disk, you can save and restore content. If you put your program on the same physical media as the system you’ve started with, you have to completely understand what is happening; otherwise you will lose it when you make changes.

    This is not meant to scare people; the whole architecture of Live Persistence and Frugal installations both have mechanisms to allow you to save information on separate media so that you can reuse it, but if you do not understand this, there is a potential for an entire system to be rewritten by new software.

    Brian Masinick

    #41346
    Member
    XecureXecure

    ” Next time you install/upgrade a program, your changes will be overwritten.
    It is best to create a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications if you… “

    Stating “best” there… yeah, necessitates mentioning the huge caveat:
    ” Next time you install/upgrade a program, your changes to files pathed there are subject to being overwritten. ”

    I’m at a loss how best to word it, what(all) advice to offer, for inclusion within an installation howto.

    In fact, the menu-applications file (stored in /usr/share/desktop-menu/.icewm for example, symlinked by ~/.icewm/menu-applications) does “regenerate” every time a package is installed/upgraded/removed through apt, because of the special hook in apt. That is what I was referring to.

    You and masinick are 100% correct about editing files outside the user directory. Possible changes may be overwritten.

    #41348
    Member
    Avataranilkagi

    anilkagi, liveboot has been the focus of my interest. Your howto skips past, glosses over, the liveboot experience.

    I discussed it in the other thread. I will make a mention of that here.

    Excuse my pedantic stumbling

    No, no. I would never hold your opinions pedantic, Skidoo. I hold your directions in high regard.

    I have faced issues while installing and customizing and I myself have discussed them with you knowledgeable guys, in nearly twenty or even more threads that I have launched and sought help. You and others have guided and helped me find solutions. I have been vocal in thanking and appreciating your support to alleviate the issues. I thought, other newcomers should not go through the same time and energy consuming process and so I should put and compile all the information I gathered through the exercises I went through, in one place, so that it would lessen their work. So I did this HowTo. Moreover it even is a good reference guide for me too, in the future if I forget any process. Actually, I had compiled this HowTo for my own use and others near and dear to me. I just shared it here.

    The tweaks that I have mentioned are just options given to those users who are searching for ways to accomplish them. I have now clarified it by saying under the heading ‘Changing default settings’;

    It is preferred and recommended that you use the OS as it comes. However, every person has different requirements. The default applications shown in the panel to the left & right bottoms, could be subjectively appropriate for you or not. You can change that by the following method.

    I needed them and was struggling to find ways to do them and thought there could be others who could require similar changes. So I mentioned ways to do if necessary.

    I will certainly, give Rufus another try and document the process.

    Further, I will reword some phrases pointed out by you and @Masinick.

    Due to these caveats related to “manually altering ‘system’ files”, I suggest the introductory “howto” not mention/coach alteration of any files residing outside the user’s HOME directory.

    I too was thinking in that direction, after Xecure raised it. I will omit the ‘Menu updating – manual’ part now. I will launch a new topic for seeking better or proper ways to do it and then see if I can incorporate that here.

    Thank you for all your valuable inputs.

    #41349
    Member
    Avataranilkagi

    The specifics that skidoo mentions in post #41338 are very important. Anything in a directory owned by root is subject to change.
    Suppose you install a new version of the operating system. You can be 100% certain that any modified programs will overwrite previous programs and their associated configuration. With antiX, there is a choice to create a new file system or reuse the existing filesystem when you install a new version. If you create a new file system you risk losing 100% of any file you have not explicitly saved in a file system not created or owned by the distribution.

    In a Frugal setup, you are going to start over every time with everything on the system with the exception of anything you save on another device with persistence.

    You can see the pattern – if you save something elsewhere, on removable media – different media than the system you are using to install, or a different disk, you can save and restore content. If you put your program on the same physical media as the system you’ve started with, you have to completely understand what is happening; otherwise you will lose it when you make changes.

    This is not meant to scare people; the whole architecture of Live Persistence and Frugal installations both have mechanisms to allow you to save information on separate media so that you can reuse it, but if you do not understand this, there is a potential for an entire system to be rewritten by new software.

    That was a nice way of putting things in simple terms. Thanks for this explanation, Masinick.

    #41350
    Moderator
    Brian MasinickBrian Masinick

    If it makes you feel any better, I made a snapshot image from my on disk system and included WAY too many files from my directories, especially Documents.

    The results were poor. If I want a Frugal image I’d better get more frugal myself!📯

    Brian Masinick

    #41351
    Moderator
    Brian MasinickBrian Masinick

    I may have been able to build that as a bootable image, but I doubt it.

    Brian Masinick

    #41352
    Member
    Avataranilkagi

    Xecure,

    Thanks for pointing this out. Now I can remember. In the regular installation of antiX-Base, I had faced this issue. After some time, the changes I did, used to revert back to default conditions. Now I know that the changes I manually made in the menu-applications file were over-written whenever I installed/upgraded/removed a program through apt, because of the special hook in apt.

    This not only happens if manually edited, it also happens to changes made with the help of Menu-editor from Control-center. Now I remember. I have experienced this.

    So this needs a specific mention, in the guide that, for those people who install packages manually and make changes to Menu-editor even from control-center, will be overwritten, after install/upgrade/remove a program from apt. So, all the previous changes to the Menu-editor must be repeated, if necessary, after install/upgrade/remove a program from apt.

    So, as you mentioned in your first post, is it because, they will be overwritten and the changes lost, you said that, it is not recommended?

    If that is the case, I suppose, the ‘Menu-updating – manual’ can be retained for the benefit of those needing it, if they install any program manually with say Gdebi installer and make consequent changes to the menu manually or from control center, with the clear mention of the caveat that they have to repeat the changes whenever a install/upgrade/removal of a program from apt take place, because they will be overwritten and return to default then.

    I suppose there is no harm in keeping it instead of omitting, along with the caveat, for the benefit of those who install packages manually, if the “Refresh Menu” or the command “desktop-menu –write-out-global” does not work for them. I have faced it. It has not worked for me.

    I personally feel giving this information to the users, is necessary, in order to enable them to make changes to their desktop as they want, because I have the necessity of installing some packages manually and consequently making these changes to the Menu. I don’t know how many other users would need this. Is the number large enough to warrant a mention of this or is it just an isolated case of mine? I request honorable members to kindly throw more light upon this. Whether to retain the ‘update menu: manual and/or from control center’, section in the guide, along with the caveat, or not?

    #41353
    Moderator
    Brian MasinickBrian Masinick

    One of the distinguishing features of the Frugal approach is to create small, very specific images.

    Someone mentioned creating several different Frugal images, each with a unique set of features.

    That’s one way to get small, secure, removable images to create small specific systems.

    • This reply was modified 8 months ago by Brian Masinick.

    Brian Masinick

    #41357
    Member
    Avataranilkagi

    Masinick,

    I have discussed regarding the Frugal install in this topic: https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/the-philosophy-behind-my-attachment-with-antix-or-floss/

    There I have given link to the discussion, where Olsztyn gives details regarding the small, secure, removable images to create small specific systems, that you mentioned. So I thought of giving a link to it, instead of discussing it. I am in the midst of editing the post.

    #41367
    Moderator
    Brian MasinickBrian Masinick

    Masinick,

    I have discussed regarding the Frugal install in this topic: https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/the-philosophy-behind-my-attachment-with-antix-or-floss/

    There I have given link to the discussion, where Olsztyn gives details regarding the small, secure, removable images to create small specific systems, that you mentioned. So I thought of giving a link to it, instead of discussing it. I am in the midst of editing the post.

    Thank you!

    Brian Masinick

    #41435
    Member
    Avataranilkagi

    Hello everybody,

    I have edited and reworded the step by step guide, to accommodate every modification, suggestion and concern raised by by the honorable members. Please take a look.

    Kindly continue to help to improve the document with any of your valuable suggestions.

    Thanks and Regards.

    #41461
    Moderator
    Brian MasinickBrian Masinick

    Hello everybody,

    I have edited and reworded the step by step guide, to accommodate every modification, suggestion and concern raised by by the honorable members. Please take a look.

    Kindly continue to help to improve the document with any of your valuable suggestions.

    Thanks and Regards.

    Your work is GREATLY appreciated, and the community assistance to proof-read and assist in updating the details is very similar to what is done when we create a manual page, a tutorial, or something similar to provide information, help, and assistance. Even if this information is edited or modified twenty times, it is STILL VERY HELPFUL! Thanks again!

    Brian Masinick

    #41564
    Member
    Avatarseaken64

    Thank you anilkagi, well done.

    I have just a few comments (I read thru all the comments and some of this was already mentioned. Maybe you have already considered some of this for edits).

    Why limit to the BASE version? It is also appropriate for the FULL version.

    Some mention of the different versions that can be downloaded may be appropriate. There are 32-bit and 64-bit versions.

    After the iso is burned to CD/DVD or written to USB, and the computer is shutdown and rebooted, the resulting new OS is now LIVE. It is not installed to the Hard Disk yet. Some mention of the Live system prior to install may be appropriate. There is a choice in the install routine to save the Live changes. You talk about updating and setting up the wifi, etc. This is all done in the LIVE system prior to install.

    I’m not sure but I don’t think Synaptic is installed by default in the Base system any more (maybe I am wrong on this but it seems I remember this from my last couple of BASE installs). The Control Centre launcher for package management goes to cli-aptiX instead. Synaptic is installed by default in FULL.

    You can “copy” a .desktop file easily and then edit it to launch a newly installed program. Then run menu update. This would be better than editing a system file.

    Again, thank you for a job well done.

    Seaken64

    #41755
    Member
    Avataranilkagi

    Thanks Seaken64.

    Why limit to the BASE version? It is also appropriate for the FULL version.

    Some mention of the different versions that can be downloaded may be appropriate. There are 32-bit and 64-bit versions.

    After the iso is burned to CD/DVD or written to USB, and the computer is shutdown and rebooted, the resulting new OS is now LIVE. It is not installed to the Hard Disk yet. Some mention of the Live system prior to install may be appropriate. There is a choice in the install routine to save the Live changes. You talk about updating and setting up the wifi, etc. This is all done in the LIVE system prior to install.

    Can’t agree more. These suggestions will make the document wholesome, covering all aspects. I will edit accordingly. Thanks for the suggestions.

    I’m not sure but I don’t think Synaptic is installed by default in the Base system any more (maybe I am wrong on this but it seems I remember this from my last couple of BASE installs). The Control Centre launcher for package management goes to cli-aptiX instead. Synaptic is installed by default in FULL.

    Yeah, Synaptic is not installed by default, in Base but is there by default in Full. Now, when we make this a general guide, not limited to Base, we can mention it.

    You can “copy” a .desktop file easily and then edit it to launch a newly installed program. Then run menu update. This would be better than editing a system file.

    I will try this out and put it into the document.

    Thanks for the suggestions.

    #41936
    Moderator
    Brian MasinickBrian Masinick

    Post #41269 (the beginning of this thread, is the original article.
    If there are difficulties editing or updating it, please let me know.

    If there are no other options available, we can create a PART TWO section, or
    an “Amendments to the Step by step guide to install antiX-Base”.

    Feel free to add or continue by choosing one of these approaches and
    putting this in another post in this section.

    Brian Masinick

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