Still using antiX-16 in 2020

Forum Forums Official Releases antiX-16 “Berta Cáceres” Still using antiX-16 in 2020

  • This topic has 42 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated Aug 10-10:40 pm by seaken64.
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 43 total)
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  • #38509
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    @Seaken64: I have definitely upgraded versions with antiX; recently I’ve just been gradually upgrading, mostly between minor releases, but I’ve definitely upgraded Debian and antiX between versions that have had significant infrastructure changes. I’ve found that as long as you can get the ENTIRE infrastructure upgraded at the same time, it works.

    For example, when Debian Sid goes through a major change, I’ll pause my package upgrades for a few weeks until EVERYTHING is available for the change and then I’ll upgrade all of it. That has worked every time. Testing sometimes changes too and for years I ran antiX Testing without any issues at all and the changes crossed BOTH Debian Testing versions AND antiX versions. Again, when a lot of stuff changes you can just observe the changes. I usually do a dist-upgrade. Before I allow it to proceed, I examine the changes and assess whether it’s likely to be safe or not.

    A couple of times I even TRIED to break it and the dist-upgrades would recover from it – except for once when I did a particularly dastardly thing and deliberately broke it. So the risks are not super high for release upgrade failures. Again as long as you have backups, even if there IS a failure, you can restore to a previous state. If you have multiple backups – some for the files you want to retain and others that are a full system backup, you can selectively use them a bit easier. Suppose you install a new release instead. Then just use the file recovery backup instead of the full backup.

    Both backups and restores can take a while; I’d say that it’s likely that a RESTORE takes longer than the backup because the restorations require both reading and writing contents, reading them from the backup and writing them to the new location. The backup does read the original directory contents, but that generally seems to be a faster operation, probably because a lot of your current work is in cache memory if it has been recently accessed and you have plenty of cache memory.

    Anyway, time consuming as it is, I find it fun to experiment with things like that. Generally speaking, I can also have a browser open to a forum and I can read and write as I am waiting.

    Today I installed Zenwalk GNU Linux and I’ve been copying in directories from other systems and pulling in commonly used applications. Some of it was running as I began this dialogue.

    Brian Masinick

    #38510
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    http://www.zenwalk.org/ – decent system with a light implementation of Xfce.

    It’s based on Slackware CURRENT, so as you may expect, it has similar stability to this system and it also has an easier to manage package tool than old versions of Slackware. So far I have enjoyed trying it out.

    Brian Masinick

    #38515
    Member
    rayluorayluo

    The antiX user forum seems to be one of the worst and the response is sluggish at best or simply becomes unusable…

    That is just because of the people here, not because of your old browser.

    OK, OK, I’m just kidding. 🙂


    So, I would say that antiX-16 is still usable. but just barely on this old P-III. I will keep antiX-16 on this machine for the rest of the year just to see what happens. But if I had a choice I would use antiX-19 for most of this stuff. I have antiX-19 on one of my other P-III’s (a 1000Mhz with 512M RAM) and that system is still quite usable in 2020. I will consider installing antiX-19 on this older machine in 2021 just to see if it works better than antiX-16 on the same equipment.

    Unlike Windows 2000, 98, or DOS-OS/2, or old OSX, antiX-16 is still usable. These other OS’s have become worthless. So that’s pretty cool. I wonder how long I can continue to use antiX-16? Only time will tell.

    Out of curiosity, was your comments really about “antix-16” itself, or was it more about “the (particular older versions of) browsers, music players and video viewers that happened to be shipped inside antix-16”? Have you ever tried running antix19 on the same machine and see whether it and its out-of-box “browsers, music and video players” perform the same? Trying a different version of antix could be easy, if your machine happens to support booting from Live CD or Live USB.

    #38522
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    Snip:

    So, I would say that antiX-16 is still usable. but just barely on this old P-III. I will keep antiX-16 on this machine for the rest of the year just to see what happens. But if I had a choice I would use antiX-19 for most of this stuff. (End snip)

    Out of curiosity, was your comments really about “antix-16” itself, or was it more about “the (particular older versions of) browsers, music players and video viewers that happened to be shipped inside antix-16”? Have you ever tried running antix19 on the same machine and see whether it and its out-of-box “browsers, music and video players” perform the same? Trying a different version of antix could be easy, if your machine happens to support booting from Live CD or Live USB.

    I know from conversation with seaken64 that he has been running antiX 19 on some of his hardware but not on the device he’s discussing here.

    You’re right; trying it live using whatever bootable media is available would probably answer the question, though running from removable media on an already old system can be a test of patience!

    Brian Masinick

    #38560
    Member
    Avatarseaken64

    I’m pretty sure version 19 will run on that machine. But this is more of an exercise for me to see if I can continue with antiX-16. (I do have antiX-19 Core TUI running on that machine as a frugal install. But the GUI/IceWM install remains at 16. I will keep 16 for awhile to learn how it responds to the lack of support and my own ability to use the software with no support).

    Seaken64

    #38570
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    I’m rooting for you seaken64 and I believe that you will get maximum time and use out of antiX 16 with updates.

    Brian Masinick

    #39825
    Member
    Avatarmarcelocripe

    Seaken64,

    Excellent topic started by you.

    I needed to test the versions of antiX 19.2, then version 17.4.1 and finally version 16.3 which was the only one that worked on the motherboard MSI 238318 or STI910090 with video driver Via VT8237R Plus. I only managed to make it work because many colleagues here on the forum helped me. This motherboard is later than the Pentium III generation and even then the latest versions of antiX did not work, due to the video driver.

    The problem, it seems, is that hardware support will be removed with each new version and we will be increasingly without options.

    I would prefer to have at ISO Full a giant collection of drivers to save many computers and notebooks from programmed or forced obsolescence.

    marcelocripe

    ————-

    Seaken64,

    Excelente tópico iniciado por você.

    Eu precisei testar as versões do antiX 19.2, depois versão 17.4.1 e por último a versão 16.3 que foi a única que funcionou na placa mãe MSI 238318 ou STI910090 com driver de vídeo Via VT8237R Plus. Eu só consegui fazer funcionar porque muitos colegas aqui do fórum me ajudaram. Esta placa mãe é posterior a geração do Pentium III e mesmo assim as versões mais recentes do antiX não funcionaram, devido ao driver de vídeo.

    O problema, ao parece é que vão retirando o suporte de hardware a cada nova versão e a gente vai ficando cada vez mais sem opções.

    Eu preferia ter no ISO Full uma coleção gigante de drivers para salvar muitos computadores e notebooks da obsolência programada ou forçada.

    marcelocripe

    #39887
    Member
    Avatarseaken64

    @marcelocripe,

    Yes, sometimes the hardware just doesn’t get any support when the kernel moves on. It makes sense since developers only have so much time and energy and can’t support everything. They have to stay with the hardware that is more in use.

    If I were a programmer and developer I may be able to keep an old version of antiX or Debian running long into the future through some careful selection and compiling specifically for the equipment. But I am just a user and I get lost in the programming and the libraries and packages, etc. as they change and morph into a newer system.

    So, for me the question will be how long I can be successful running un-supported software. How long can I be successful installing software on antiX-16 and Jessie based distros with no help from the development community. I think I will have more success in antiX than in Windows 2000 or 9x. I am pretty impressed that I can run a nearly 20 year old computer and still get it to perform better than when it ran Win98/Win2K. antiX is pretty amazing if you ask me, even if it’s the unsupported version 16.

    Seaken64

    #39888
    Member
    Avatarseaken64

    I would prefer to have at ISO Full a giant collection of drivers to save many computers and notebooks from programmed or forced obsolescence.

    That may work in some limited cases. But the drivers are often compiled using the older libraries and may not work with a newer system. If you could learn to make modifications and then recompile on the newer systems you may be able to make that work. I ran across a version of Puppy Linux (Puppy 214X) that was compiled using an old kernel and updated to use the then-current repositories and current browsers. It was like using an old linux in the modern times. But it was prepared by a developer who knew what he/she was doing. I don’t understand it all myself. But it did show me what could be accomplished.

    #39893
    Member
    AvatarKenzoG

    seaken64: “I am pretty impressed that I can run a nearly 20 year old computer and still get it to perform better than when it ran Win98/Win2K”

    A problem that have very recently begun – starting last week – is that the Chromium browser no longer shows all websites correctly.
    That is Chromium version 57 and, IF I understand it correctly, Debian do not support any newer version of Chromium for Jessie – AntiX Berta Cáceres.
    (Firefox is too heavy to use, it hangs on a i686 from 2004 with 512 MB RAM, using a Celeron M.)

    So, seaken64, what browser did you eventually find that still works correctly on AntiX Berta Cáceres ?
    I think that if the browser can be used on a Pentium III, it should certainly also work on a Celeron M. 🙂

    #39911
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    I’m interested in this too. I don’t have my original old hardware. At one time I had a Dell Dimension 4100 which I obtained in 2001 and a Dell D600 laptop (I’ve used D610, D620, and maybe a D630 on occasion, but I didn’t own them myself; I either used them on the job or in fixing them up (usually with a custom antiX for someone having trouble with malfunctioning nineties or early 2000s versions of Windows). Like seaken64 I am interested in old stuff, partly for historical reasons and also because I occasionally pick up an old junker that still works with antiX!
    I got rid of 32-bit systems I had that worked well with old systems – Gateway 2000 PA6A 17″ model and Lenovo 3000 series Y410; I was running out of systems other than in THIS family to run it. I have a Lenovo N22 Chromebook and a Dell Inspiron 5558; both are 3-5 years old.

    I recently picked up three old systems, a rock solid Lenovo Thinkpad X201 and two HP systems, an HP Pavilion e5000 series desktop with a nice large 2000 series monitor and a 2610p laptop. All three work, but the 2610p laptop is starting to separate near the hinge so it’s “marginal” at this point.

    Brian Masinick

    #39959
    Member
    Avatarseaken64

    I have had the most success with SeaMonkey. I have run up to version 2.49.4 on the 32-bit systems.

    Rendering a website “correctly” can be a problem as the feature set of browsers continues to change. It depends on what you need. If you need some scripting that is not supported in an older browser you’re going to have a hard time. Sometimes you can use an alternate site that is more suited to “Mobile” devices and get better results. This is more a problem with the development of the site than it is specific to an old browser. Some developers only care to support new and modern equipment, and some don’t support all browsers anyway, only a particular type. That’s the decision of the website developer.

    I also browse with PaleMoon, Netsurf and Links2. But the results vary.

    If you use an alternate browser you most likely will have to install it yourself. SeaMonkey makes that easy. Just extract the archive to a folder and launch the seamonkey file. You can set up a launcher on the desktop or make a .desktop file for the main menu, or add it to the Personal Menu.

    Seaken64

    • This reply was modified 3 days, 9 hours ago by seaken64.
    #39960
    Member
    Avatarseaken64

    Brian,

    I still have many 32-bit systems. Also many 16-bit and a few 8-bit. The 32-bit P-III’s and Pentium-M are really good on antiX. For my Pentium 4’s, in addition to antiX, I sometimes use MX and MX-Fluxbox or Q4OS or plain Debian. I cut my teeth with Vector/Slackware but I much prefer the antiX/MX/Debian family.

    It’s a shame you don’t have any 32-bit any more. It’s a fun platform.

    Seaken64

    • This reply was modified 3 days, 9 hours ago by seaken64.
    #40002
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    @Seaken64: Yeah, when I moved from Michigan to South Carolina, we were moving from a two bedroom condominium with an outdoor connected garage to a one bedroom apartment with a gated storage area down the hall and a carport downstairs. My wife had a walk-in closet in the previous home; in our current place we have a closet on each side of the hallway in between the bedroom and the bathroom closets put together are about the size of her previous closet.
    I kept my computers and all of my things in the second bedroom, so we don’t have that separate space.

    I did pick up a pullout desk with shelves some time after we arrived here. That gave me places to store tech documents and computers, and the option to close it up when we have visitors, so that helped. It enabled me to get a few old computers from my brother in law. Even the OLD computers are newer than the Gateway and Lenovo systems that I used to have, and much newer than the Dell Dimension 4100 I had at the turn of the century.

    I did get a LOT of good testing out of the systems from that era, no doubt about it. There are still a lot of systems capable of supporting my current generation of 64-bit systems – 3-10 years old – still pretty significant range.

    I guess that you are one of our top champions to retain the hardware and expertise with the 32-bit systems (the ones that I used for about 15 years.

    I throw this into the mix – maybe it’s out here somewhere in an old post in the archives: I actually had an early 64-bit UNIX workstation between 1995-1998 that ran Digital UNIX. Actually, at times I had at least two of them, plus a PC to run Windows NT; I tested current and new daily, weekly, and release builds of Digital UNIX, interoperability with Windows NT, and sometimes feature interoperability with competing UNIX servers and workstations. So I had 64-bits at work in the mid to late nineties, and a 32-bit Windows 95/98 and Linux desktops.

    In the later 1990s I had a few other 32-bit laptops until I got the 2001 Dell Dimension 4100; I used that as a test 32-bit desktop workstation until I got the 2007-2008 Gateway and Lenovo laptops.

    Brian Masinick

    #40003
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    @Seaken64: What are you running on the 8-bit and 16-bit systems? I used some of those in the seventies and eighties – in college and shortly after college; I did not own any of my own, but at various jobs I was a technology person who installed, configured, supported, or developed software using a wide variety of equipment from microprocessors to mainframe systems.

    Brian Masinick

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