Still using antiX-16 in 2020

Forum Forums Orphaned Posts antiX-16 “Berta Cáceres” Still using antiX-16 in 2020

  • This topic has 57 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated May 17-3:57 pm by Brian Masinick.
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  • #40005
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    Brian Masinick
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    I have had the most success with SeaMonkey. I have run up to version 2.49.4 on the 32-bit systems.

    Rendering a website “correctly” can be a problem as the feature set of browsers continues to change. It depends on what you need. If you need some scripting that is not supported in an older browser you’re going to have a hard time. Sometimes you can use an alternate site that is more suited to “Mobile” devices and get better results. This is more a problem with the development of the site than it is specific to an old browser. Some developers only care to support new and modern equipment, and some don’t support all browsers anyway, only a particular type. That’s the decision of the website developer.

    I also browse with PaleMoon, Netsurf and Links2. But the results vary.

    If you use an alternate browser you most likely will have to install it yourself. SeaMonkey makes that easy. Just extract the archive to a folder and launch the seamonkey file. You can set up a launcher on the desktop or make a .desktop file for the main menu, or add it to the Personal Menu.

    Seaken64

    I still use Seamonkey from time to time too. As you probably remember, prior to Mozilla introducing Firefox and Thunderbird, the Mozilla Browser was a browser suite, with browser, chat, newsgroup, and email capabilities. Actually it went clear back to when the product was called Netscape in the very early browser days.

    Wikipedia history: “Precursors to the web browser emerged in the form of hyperlinked applications during the mid and late 1980s, and following these, Tim Berners-Lee is credited with developing, in 1990, both the first web server, and the first web browser, called WorldWideWeb (no spaces) and later renamed Nexus.[2] Many others were soon developed, with Marc Andreessen’s 1993 Mosaic (later Netscape),[3] being particularly easy to use and install, and often credited with sparking the internet boom of the 1990s.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser

    Brian Masinick

    #40008
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    seaken64
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    @Seaken64: What are you running on the 8-bit and 16-bit systems? I used some of those in the seventies and eighties – in college and shortly after college; I did not own any of my own, but at various jobs I was a technology person who installed, configured, supported, or developed software using a wide variety of equipment from microprocessors to mainframe systems.

    The 8-bit hardware runs a variety of proprietary OS’s. NorthStar Advantage on CP/M. Apple //e on ProDOS (I think), and C64, CoCo2, Atari 800. None of these are good for experimenting with Linux or UNIX, at least not for me. Way above my pay grade.

    I do have a few 8088 machines which are 8-bit-16-bit hybrids. I put CP/M-86 on one. But mostly MS-DOS/Tandy-DOS/IBM-DOS, or DR-DOS.

    I have several 16-bit/32-bit machines, 80286, 80386sx, 80386, 80486, even a couple NEC V20 or V30. One of my main 16-bit machines runs DR-DOS 7x and CP/M-86. OS/2 on a couple 80386sx and 80486 machines. Also MS-DOS 5.0 and WFW3.11 and Win-95. Win-NT on one. I tried Linux on my 486DX2 once. Slackware. Not something I could make work for me. DOS, OS/2 and Windows were easier for me. For me Linux starts with the Pentium. I have a Pentium 150 dual booting Win98SE, Vector/Slackware, and antiX Core. With anything before that it’s the OS it came with or a contemporary (like Win3.1 and OS/2 or WinNT).

    Seaken64

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by seaken64.
    • This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by seaken64.
    #40009
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    seaken64
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    Yes, I’ve used Netscape and Mozilla since their beginning. I remember giving a talk about the internet at our local CUG and I used Mosaic and Netscape for demos. Everyone was “wow!” over hyperlinks and images. Funny. So quaint today.

    Seaken64

    #40017
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    Brian Masinick
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    @Seaken64: That’s incredible. Where do you keep all of the systems? Do you have a room full of old technology?

    Brian Masinick

    #40018
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    Brian Masinick
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    A Micron M100 was my first PC that I owned and I got it to run Slackware Linux and Windows. The system came with Windows for Workgroups 3.11. I put Windows 95 on it shortly after I it.

    Both Windows and Slackware ran well on the Micron but Slackware Linux was better for networking. I didn’t have a high speed network until around 1999 when I got a high speed cable network for both Internet and TV plus phone.

    That revolutionized what I could do at home, pretty much matching what I had been able to do at work since 1985 when I joined Digital Equipment Corporation.

    I got a laptop for home in 1999 and signed up for graduate school at the University of Phoenix Online.

    I wrote many papers about how Linux technology would eventually be prevalent. I’m using a Linux kernel on a phone to write this note.

    Brian Masinick

    #40019
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    seaken64
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    @Seaken64: That’s incredible. Where do you keep all of the systems? Do you have a room full of old technology?

    Yes, I have a lab/office in my basement and an adjacent additional room for storage. There are some pictures of my space that I put up while in quarantine. Here: http://www.crackerb.com/sean/computers/SMK_Old_Computers.html

    I inherited a lot of these machines through our family business. My website is hosted on our company server.

    As we upgraded our systems I ended up with a lot of computers. I also got a lot from the dump or people gave them to me.

    Seaken64

    #40021
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    Brian Masinick
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    I might still be able to get antiX 16 to run on a few of my systems. I probably have either a USB or DVD with it, will try it live, “Just For Fun” (familiar title to anyone?)

    Brian Masinick

    #40082
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    marcelocripe
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    Brian,

    I still have many 32-bit systems. Also many 16-bit and a few 8-bit. The 32-bit P-III’s and Pentium-M are really good on antiX. For my Pentium 4’s, in addition to antiX, I sometimes use MX and MX-Fluxbox or Q4OS or plain Debian. I cut my teeth with Vector/Slackware but I much prefer the antiX/MX/Debian family.

    It’s a shame you don’t have any 32-bit any more. It’s a fun platform.

    Seaken64

    Hello Seaken64, how are you?

    I do not know and have never tested these operating systems that you mentioned “MX and MX-Fluxbox or Q4OS or plain Debian”, would you have the memory consumption values ​​for each of them?

    I managed to find Q4OS and MX Linux:

    https://q4os.org/downloads1.html

    “You can download either a lightweight efficient Trinity desktop, or more advanced Plasma desktop edition. Live media allow users to get a quick Q4OS experience, or try it out on a real hardware without installation. If satisfied, an optional installer is available. Use the install-cd media for older 64bit as well as 32bit machines.
    The minimal hardware requirements are defined as follows:
    Desktop plasma – 1GHz CPU / 1GB RAM / 5GB disk
    Trinity desktop – 300MHz CPU / 128MB RAM / 3GB disk ”

    https://wiki.xfce.org/minimum_requirements

    “MX Linux is a cooperative venture between the antiX and former MEPIS communities. It is a midweight OS based on a Debian Stable base and drawing from the core antiX system. Its minimum requirements are:
    A CD / DVD drive (and BIOS capable of booting from that drive), or a live USB (and BIOS capable of booting from USB)
    The modern i686 Intel or AMD processor
    512 MB of RAM memory
    5 GB free hard drive space
    For use as a LiveUSB, 4 GB free. ”

    I was unable to find the minimum hardware requirements for MX-Fluxbox at the link: https://mxlinux.org/mx-fluxbox/, I cannot understand why several Linux distros do not report the minimum hardware requirements.

    I didn’t find anything about “plain Debian”, could you please tell me where to find this Debian?

    I will have to keep many computers with 32-bit processors running with some Linux distro, preferably with those that consume less memory and less processing and that have a translation into the Portuguese language of Brazil or Portugal.

    Thankful.

    Original text in Brazilian Portuguese, translated into English by the Google translator.

    marcelocripe

    ————–

    Olá Seaken64, tudo bem com você?

    Eu não conheço e nunca testei estes sistemas operacionais que você mencionou “MX and MX-Fluxbox or Q4OS or plain Debian”, você teria os valores de consumo de memória de cada um deles?

    Eu consegui encontrar o Q4OS e o MX Linux:

    https://q4os.org/downloads1.html

    “You can download either a lightweight efficient Trinity desktop, or more advanced Plasma desktop edition. Live media allow users to get a quick Q4OS experience, or try it out on a real hardware without installation. If satisfied, an optional installer is available. Use the install-cd media for older 64bit as well as 32bit machines.
    The minimal hardware requirements are defined as follows:
    Plasma desktop – 1GHz CPU / 1GB RAM / 5GB disk
    Trinity desktop – 300MHz CPU / 128MB RAM / 3GB disk”

    https://wiki.xfce.org/minimum_requirements

    “MX Linux is a cooperative venture between the antiX and former MEPIS communities. It is a midweight OS based on a Debian Stable base and drawing from the core antiX system. Its minimum requirements are:
    A CD/DVD drive (and BIOS capable of booting from that drive), or a live USB (and BIOS capable of booting from USB)
    A modern i686 Intel or AMD processor
    512 MB of RAM memory
    5 GB free hard drive space
    For use as a LiveUSB, 4 GB free.”

    Eu não consegui encontrar os requisitos mínimos de hardware para o MX-Fluxbox no link: https://mxlinux.org/mx-fluxbox/, eu não consigo entender por que várias distros Linux não informam os requisitos mínimos de hardware.

    Eu não encontrei nada sobre o “plain Debian”, por favor, poderia me informar onde encontrar este Debian?

    Eu terei que manter muitos computadores com processadores de 32 bits em funcionamento com alguma distro Linux, de preferência com as que consomem menos memória e menos processamento e que possuam tradução para o idioma Português do Brasil ou de Portugal.

    Grato.

    Texto original no idioma português do Brasil, traduzido para inglês pelo tradutor do Google.

    marcelocripe

    #40086
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    Brian Masinick
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    Distribution Debian (formerly Debian GNU/Linux)
    Home Page http://www.debian.org/
    Mailing Lists http://lists.debian.org/
    User Forums http://forums.debian.net/
    Source of information: https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=Debian

    Brian Masinick

    #40089
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    seaken64
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    As you found out, MX is related to antiX, in that is was developed from the same group, coming out of the Mepis distro. MX shares the antiX LIVE tools and antiX shares some of the MX tools. MX is using the XFCE Desktop Environment, unlike antiX which uses a Window Manager instead.

    MX-Fluxbox is just another interface on top of MX, using the Fluxbox interface instead of the XFCE interface. So, it has roughly the same requirements as MX. However, I run both MX and MX-Fluxbox on much less than the requirements that are stated in the MX/antiX wiki. MX-Fluxbox can be modified to get much closer to the antiX requirements. But it takes some work and is not directly supported by the devs, although they have been very helpful and supportive of those of us who do re-work the defaults to use less memory.

    See some of this discussion on the MX forum here:
    https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=56269

    Q4OS is a nice distro that caters to former Windows users or others who want to use Debian in very straightforward way. It is curated similar to how MX does things but uses the Trinity Desktop (older KDE 3.x style) or the modern KDE Plasma interface. There are several tools to make the interface look like a Windows machine but it is Debian underneath. Good for small businesses who need to keep some old equipment running while dropping Windows support.

    When I say “plain Debian” I mean I am using Debian straight from the source and it is not a derivative like the other three distros I mentioned. antiX, MX, and Q4OS are all Debian underneath but they are managed by those teams and have their own spin on Debian. If you go straight to Debian you become the manager and have to learn how to setup Debian to meet your needs. That can be a challenge and it shows the advantage of using a Debian-based distro like antiX.

    I will do some tests and get back to you some data on what my installs use for memory, disk space, and the processors I am using. I do know already that antiX is the absolute BEST distro for old equipment. And you’ve already read some of my posts on this antiX forum that document what I have done with antiX.

    Seaken64

    #40092
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    marcelocripe
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    Hi Brian Masinick, how are you?

    Debian:
    https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch02.en.html
    https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch03s04.en.html

    “3.4. Meeting Minimum Hardware Requirements
    Once you have gathered information about your computer’s hardware, check that your hardware will let you do the type of installation that you want to do.
    Depending on your needs, you might manage with less than some of the recommended hardware listed in the table below. However, most users risk being frustrated if they ignore these suggestions.
    A Pentium 4, 1GHz system is the minimum recommended for a desktop system.

    Table 3.2. Recommended Minimum System Requirements

    Install Type RAM (minimum) RAM (recommended) Hard Drive
    On the desktop 256 megabytes 512 megabytes 2 gigabytes
    With Desktop 512 megabytes 2 gigabytes 10 gigabytes ”

    Seaken64,

    I imagine that the “plain Debian” you mentioned is an optimization that you created?

    Did you build one from the version of the Debian CD that needs internet to install?

    If it is possible to do what you did in MX-Fluxbox, but in antiX, use the latest ISO, make the necessary changes to the kernel and be able to install and work on old computers, it could be another ISO for Anticapitalista to make available for download.

    “If you go straight to Debian you become the manager and have to learn how to setup Debian to meet your needs. That can be a challenge and it shows the advantage of using a Debian-based distro like antiX.”

    I still have a lot to learn to be able to do this one day, maybe one day … prepare a Linux distro to save several computers and notebooks from the trash.

    I still have to fight hard to learn how to install programs (or packages) offline, I hope that Xecure will be able to make my greatest gift, which will be the executable program my-offline-repo working, topic https: //www.antixforum .com / forums / topic / apt-based-offline-repo-small-yad-bash-project /

    “I will do some tests and get back to you some data on what my installs use for memory, disk space, and the processors I am using. I do know already that antiX is the absolute BEST distro for old equipment. And you’ve already read some of my posts on this antiX forum that document what I have done with antiX. ”

    I will do the same, I will include the information I was able to collect from the tests I did before reaching antiX Linux.

    Thankful.

    Original text in Brazilian Portuguese, translated into English by the Google translator.

    marcelocripe

    ——————

    Olá Brian Masinick, tudo bem com você?

    O Debian:
    https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch02.en.html
    https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch03s04.en.html

    “3.4. Meeting Minimum Hardware Requirements
    Once you have gathered information about your computer’s hardware, check that your hardware will let you do the type of installation that you want to do.
    Depending on your needs, you might manage with less than some of the recommended hardware listed in the table below. However, most users risk being frustrated if they ignore these suggestions.
    A Pentium 4, 1GHz system is the minimum recommended for a desktop system.

    Table 3.2. Recommended Minimum System Requirements

    Install Type RAM (minimum) RAM (recommended) Hard Drive
    No desktop 256 megabytes 512 megabytes 2 gigabytes
    With Desktop 512 megabytes 2 gigabytes 10 gigabytes”

    Seaken64,

    Eu imagino que o “plain Debian” que você mencionou seja uma otimização criada por você?

    Você montou um a partir da versão do Debian CD que necessita de internet para fazer a instalação?

    Se for possível fazer o que você fez no MX-Fluxbox, mas no antiX, usar a ISO mais recente, fazer as alterações necessárias no kernel e conseguir instalar e funcionar em computadores antigos, poderia ser mais uma ISO para o Anticapitalista disponibilizar para download.

    “If you go straight to Debian you become the manager and have to learn how to setup Debian to meet your needs. That can be a challenge and it shows the advantage of using a Debian-based distro like antiX.”

    Eu ainda tenho muito o que aprender para poder um dia fazer isso, quem sabe um dia … preparar uma distro Linux para salvar vários computadores e notebook do lixo.

    Ainda tenho que lutar muito para aprender a fazer instalações de programas (ou pacotes) offline, eu espero que o Xecure consiga fazer o meu maior presente, que será o programa executável my-offline-repo funcionando, tópico https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/apt-based-offline-repo-small-yad-bash-project/

    “I will do some tests and get back to you some data on what my installs use for memory, disk space, and the processors I am using. I do know already that antiX is the absolute BEST distro for old equipment. And you’ve already read some of my posts on this antiX forum that document what I have done with antiX.”

    Eu farei o mesmo, eu incluirei as informações que eu consegui coletar dos testes que eu fiz antes de chegar até o antiX Linux.

    Grato.

    Texto original no idioma português do Brasil, traduzido para inglês pelo tradutor do Google.

    marcelocripe

    #40101
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    seaken64
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    @marcelocripe,

    we got off topic here. Please switch over to this other topic to continue this discussion on system requirements.

    https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/system-requirements-for-antix-and-other-debians/#post-40100

    Seaken64

    #40102
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    seaken64
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    @marcelocripe

    If it is possible to do what you did in MX-Fluxbox, but in antiX, use the latest ISO, make the necessary changes to the kernel and be able to install and work on old computers, it could be another ISO for Anticapitalista to make available for download.

    That’s not really needed. antiX is already very good with memory and runs better than MX-Fluxbox on old equipment like P-4 with 512MB. anticapitalista has already made a great system for these machines. Yes, sometimes a different kernel is better but that is also built in to the antiX system.

    MX has expanded beyond what antiX does and is tuned more for “mid-level” machines and does not really do well in less than 2GB of RAM or on a computer older than 10 years. When they came out with MX-Fluxbox it was an option to run on some older equipment and with less than 1GB of RAM. But it really isn’t as good as antiX with low memory or 32-bit processors.

    Seaken64

    #40127
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    Brian Masinick
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    @Seaken64: I agree with you. MX-Fluxbox is a nice compromise solution, useful for people who are beginning to experience difficulties with the full desktop, but may “occasionally” need to use the capabilities of the full MX Linux solution.

    MX Linux is definitely more nimble than the majority of desktop environments and ages pretty well. Nevertheless, antiX has a better solution when you have significant resource constraints and minimal hardware capability.

    Even antiX has “lost” support for really old hardware, but in those cases, get an older version of antiX and run it from a USB device (if supported) on your old hardware and it will work wonders. I’m running antiX 16 right now from a 2015 vintage system, Dell Inspiron 5558, which is able to run antiX 19.2 and MX Linux 19.2 quite well. Running in RAM on this aging system with antiX 16 works even better – less RAM used!

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by Brian Masinick.

    Brian Masinick

    #40146
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    seaken64
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    Yes, perhaps antiX doesn’t really “support” some really old computers anymore. But it really depends on what you need to accomplish. I have the current antiX-19 running on several P-III’s. I did have to work on setting up the video and on one system I had to compile a sound card driver. But @marcelocripe did run into at least one system where the video would not work with a discrete driver. And @Rokytnji has also said he often settles on the Vesa driver.

    But the CORE version is an option. I have it installed on a Pentium-150. The antiX FAQ only mentions P-II or P-III. But I have it running on a P-1. I can use it for lots of command line stuff. Is that “support” for really old computers? Maybe not. But it does show the true capabilities of antiX, even when based on a very current Debian 10.

    I do still run antiX-16 and antiX-17 on some P-III in low memory and with hardware not well supported in Debian Buster. And that’s why I started this topic. I’m curious to see how long 16 and 17 will remain viable. Of course 16 is out of support. But so what? As long as it works I don’t care if I get official support. When it no longer works I’ll move on (or I’ll have passed on before that happens!)

    Seaken64

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by seaken64.
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