systemd not pinned correctly

[Member Dzhigit]

I remembered when I installed antiX, it tried to install systemd. I forgot for a while until now, so I checked
apt-cache policy
Pinned packages:

I checked /etc/apt/preferences.d/00systemd, and it was this:

Package: *systemd*
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1

I changed it to this:

Package: *systemd*
Pin: origin *
Pin-Priority: -1

now all packages with “systemd” are pinned to -1. I am making this topic because I downloaded more antiX ISOs of the latest version and they have the same issue. But I am not sure if it is intentional.

• This topic was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Dzhigit. Reason: remove question mark from topic title

[Member Xecure]

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Check that you are using the “nosystemd” option in the antix.list file for the antiX repos.
When I try to install systemd on antiX 19.3 with the “default” repos, I get:

$ sudo apt install systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 systemd : Depends: libsystemd0 (= 241-7~deb10u4)
           Conflicts: consolekit but 1.2.1-8~antix1 is to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

and I get the same result with antiX 19.3 core version, but with one less line:

$ sudo apt install systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 systemd : Depends: libsystemd0 (= 241-7~deb10u4)
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

So my guess is that there is something else that is causing problems on your setup.

antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

[Member Dzhigit]

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Xecure wrote:

$ sudo apt install systemd
Reading package lists… Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information… Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
systemd : Depends: libsystemd0 (= 241-7~deb10u4)
Conflicts: consolekit but 1.2.1-8~antix1 is to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

That is because systemd is conflicting with elogind and/or consolekit, and antiX has a dummy package for libsystemd0 that depends on libelogind0. The file /etc/apt/preferences.d/00systemd is not correct. Check apt-cache policy systemd and see if there is a candidate, and apt-cache policy and see anything under “Pinned packages”

[Member Dzhigit]

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https://wiki.debian.org/AptConfiguration

[Member Xecure]

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You are right.
But still, to get systemd to install you need to experiment a lot with the system, so what was already in place

Dzhigit wrote:

That is because systemd is conflicting with elogind and/or consolekit, and antiX has a dummy package for libsystemd0 that depends on libelogind0.

should make it very difficult to install systemd. Could you share a simple case where this happens or would happen to a normal user?

I agree that your solution should be included in an update.

antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

[Member Xecure]

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I think the solution still isn’t enough, and systemd:i386 should also be included in the file.

$ apt-cache policy systemd:i386
systemd:i386:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 241-7~deb10u4
  Version table:
     246.6-2~bpo10+1 100
        100 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports/main i386 Packages
     241-7~deb10u4 500
        500 http://ulises.hostalia.com/debian buster/main i386 Packages

$ sudo apt install systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Note, selecting 'systemd:i386' instead of 'systemd'
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 systemd:i386 : Depends: libsystemd0:i386 (= 241-7~deb10u4)
                Conflicts: consolekit but 1.2.1-8~antix1 is to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

[Member Dzhigit]

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Xecure wrote:

should make it very difficult to install systemd. Could you share a simple case where this happens or would happen to a normal user?

I think I was doing something with antiX-net so it should not happen to vast majority of users. But I will try to find it.

[Anonymous]

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[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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Unless I am really missing something in this conversation it is *intentional* that systemd and packages that use systemd are explicitly not included in antiX – at all – unless something changed while “I was sleeping”!

As far as I know, the pinning and the value are intended to keep systemd and systemd libraries away and elogind was created to replace systemd dependent logind and dependent packages. Is this correct or is “my mind in outer space”?

(I may forget a lot of things), but Debian is the distribution that moved to systemd, following the lead of a Red Hat developer who invented systemd.
The original reason for creating yet another init program for Linux distributions was to provide something that would initialize many parallel processes.

The perceived problems with systemd are that is is a binary program instead of also containing a configuration tool or a script with parameters. This makes it faster, but unless you examine the source code you can’t easily see what it actually does, and the other major objection is that it does get involved with many things other than just the init (initialization) of processes.

What’s more, the same Red Hat developer has recently been circulating ideas for replacing the Linux home directory with something “more modern”. An interesting “idea”, but another one that I expect this person will do with a program or programs that aren’t easily customized, changed, or well understood. Here we go again!

OPINION: systemd is generally not welcomed by the development team here, nor is it welcomed by long-time antiX users; I doubt that “new technologies” are actively sought frequently here and the main reason is that the majority of us are using antique hardware that needs antique software to work efficiently.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Brian Masinick.

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Brian Masinick

[Member ModdIt]

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@masinik: OPINION: systemd is generally not welcomed by the development team here, nor is it welcomed by long-time antiX users;
I doubt that “new technologies” are actively sought frequently here and the main reason is that the majority of us are
using antique hardware that needs antique software to work efficiently.

The perceived problems with systemd are that is is a binary program instead of a script with parameters. This makes it faster.

It certainly filled up a terabyte HDD faster, with useless logfiles. If it boots up a system faster saving 0,005 seconds but
introducing binary logfiles, laggy shutdowns and a complex intransparent mess. The proposed systemd, home d another reason for
rejection.

In debian forum I was told if it was a problem I could turn off logging. Red hat has a what they call early out of memory application.
Guess that is to warn when the disk is nearly full of poetterings spam.

Antix is in many ways an epitome of modern computing effiency and system transparency but also runs as delivered on a lot of older
hardware. Many of us run it on modern powerful systems, in most cases a newer kernel is needed, 4K screens or multi possible but
work in progress. Not just on antiX.

[Member Dzhigit]

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Brian Masinick wrote:

it is *intentional* that systemd and packages that use systemd are explicitly not included in antiX

Brian Masinick wrote:

the pinning and the value are intended to keep systemd and systemd libraries away

Correct, we are discussing the file /etc/apt/preferences.d/00systemd, which pins systemd to -1, is not written correctly and as a result not doing anything. Fortunately this does not affect most users because it is still difficult to install systemd in antiX.

Brian Masinick wrote:

The perceived problems with systemd are that is is a binary program instead of a script with parameters.

System V init, and my favorite, runit, are also binary programs. I think you are referring to systemd’s binary logging format, which is a disaster because it is not human readable without a special program that can understand it.

[Member ModdIt]

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@ Dzhigit,
Thanks for starting this thread, even if pulling D in is highly unlikely
that is a risk I do not want.
My computer is now correctly pinned, user boxes to follow.

[Member Dzhigit]

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Xecure wrote:

I think the solution still isn’t enough, and systemd:i386 should also be included in the file.

I changed it to this and it seems to be working:

$ cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/00antix 
Package: *systemd*:any
Pin: origin *
Pin-Priority: -1

Edit: In order to avoid confusion, I think I should mention I moved everything to /etc/apt/preferences.d/00antix

• This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Dzhigit. Reason: include information about renaming the file

[Member Xecure]

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I had added two entries (for 64 and 32 bit) but your change is much better.

Thanks.

antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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Dzhigit wrote:

I changed it to this and it seems to be working:

$ cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/00antix 
Package: *systemd*:any
Pin: origin *
Pin-Priority: -1

Edit: In order to avoid confusion, I think I should mention I moved everything to /etc/apt/preferences.d/00antix

Applied this change on two of my systems, replacing /etc/apt/preferences.d/00systemd with /etc/apt/preferences.d/00antix and your changes.
Confirmed that this works as expected.

Thanks for this change!

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Brian Masinick

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