(SystemD) Story of Bento antiX and an Epson printer driver

Forum Forums General Software (SystemD) Story of Bento antiX and an Epson printer driver

  • This topic has 13 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated Feb 16-2:42 pm by afghan.
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  • #75575
    Member
    melodie

      Once I did install Bento antiX for someone who is used to Windows… too much. And he brought his Epson printer inkjet to me while I was at it. Ok there were drivers for Linux for his model printer on the official Epson website, both rpm and deb, 32bits and 64bits so I was not worried.

      I should have been worried, because as soon as I launched the install script located in the driver archive directory, all went south as soon as the console replied systemD was a dependancy. (I could not take the needed time to test installing SystemD and perhaps struggle with depends and such at that moment, I was expecting the whole thing to be straightforward).

      My question will be : by any chance is there, or is it possible to request : the creation of a future meta-package to replace the usual init system with SystemD in case of need?

      Thanks for your help.

      • This topic was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by melodie.
      • This topic was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by melodie.
      #75598
      Member
      ModdIt

        hi melodie,
        for most epson printers you do not need extra drivers, lot of support on open printing org.

        For the oddball ones which demand system D MX is probably a better bet than antiX as already
        setup to work with that.

        Maybe asking Epson why they add a crazy dependency makes sense. Be intewresting to see if they
        would give any support. OT: Brother is pretty helpful to linux users.

        #75604
        Member
        blur13

          Probably not much help since your friend already has said printer, but one thing I’ve learned dabbling in Linux is that you are better off checking hardware for compatibility before purchase. So for example, avoid Nvidia at all costs. Its a real PITA. When reviving old hardware the specific components are more or less given. But going forward, everything I purchase will support open source.

          #75611
          Anonymous

            Can we also refrain from writing about systemD here ?
            There is no such init system, just as there is no package called systemD in Debian. It is called systemd!

            systemD is an invention of the opponents of this init system and is a “Verballhornung” of the term itself!

            Verballhornung describes a phenomenon within morphological linguistics, namely the intentional or unconscious re-formation of known or unknown words and phrases. The language horizon of the “verbal-horning” individual often plays a role.

            Verballhornung
            Cacography

            #75629
            Member
            melodie

              I have been using GNU/Linux distributions since 2004, may 15th. Mandrake, Debian, Ubuntu, Archlinux. I already know all that : SystemD, not SystemD, how it was simpler and faster before SystemD.

              Some of you deeply dislike SystemD : I can understand why, but debating this is not what my topic is about.

              I would just want to be able to install it once a while on a case by case basis if and when needed.

              antiX is all I like for a lightweight and easy to customize and rebuild distribution. It is a perfect basis to work with for my needs. So I don’t intend to switch to MX Linux, even if it is a very good distribution as well.

              Thanks for your help.

              Best regards,
              Mélodie

              • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by melodie.
              #75631
              Member
              melodie

                hi melodie,
                for most epson printers you do not need extra drivers, lot of support on open printing org.

                For the oddball ones which demand system D MX is probably a better bet than antiX as already
                setup to work with that.

                Maybe asking Epson why they add a crazy dependency makes sense. Be intewresting to see if they
                would give any support. OT: Brother is pretty helpful to linux users.

                I have another Epson printer (than the one I bumped into), and when I asked their staff to make their drivers better in order to be able to use the upper part to load several sheets to scan instead of being stuck with the flatbed, all they replied was “reinstall the drivers”. Which is stupid considering it was going to be the same drivers.

                So trying to discuss would not be helpful. Maybe raise crowdfunding to pay someone to rewrite the free open source drivers they provide would be the right call?

                #75646
                Member
                ModdIt

                  Epson Seiko Maybe raise crowdfunding to pay someone to rewrite the free open source drivers they provide would be the right call?

                  Seiko Epson printing solutions reputedly made more than 9 Billion Yen pre Tax in 2021. They can easily pay for driver development
                  from the managerial coffeee budget. The sumis not final but they are hardly in distress.

                  #75648
                  Forum Admin
                  anticapitalista

                    My question will be : by any chance is there, or is it possible to request : the creation of a future meta-package to replace the usual init system with SystemD in case of need?

                    Not going to happen on antiX.

                    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

                    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

                    #77485
                    Member
                    LikkMii

                      Gotta love a guy with principles

                      #77486
                      Member
                      seaken64

                        I’m not even sure how that would work. Is it even possible to add systemd thru a deb package? I don’t know how this works. Is it also possible to add runit to the standard sysVinit system through an add-on package? If so, then why have a separate runit iso version?

                        Anyway, it seems better to switch to another printer rather than try to change what antiX is partially about just to accommodate a single customer.

                        But if it was (or is) possible to change the init system to systemd than it would no longer be antiX in the true sense. Maybe a spin. But it could not be supported as part of the antiX family without the blessing of the antiX developers. So you want to “fork” antiX to something of your own?

                        Seaken64

                        #77504
                        Member
                        melodie

                          I’m not even sure how that would work. Is it even possible to add systemd thru a deb package?

                          SystemD is in the repos, the difficulty won’t be there. Where it might be tricky if tried would be the dependancy phenomena. What would installing SystemD pull away that might be difficult to install back?

                          Perhaps changing the sources (which are “debian nosystemd” sources) would help.

                          Seaken64 : have you tried telling a user he needs to change his printer just because the GNU/Linux system you mean to provide does not do the job? He’d tell you “that is Linux? Thanks no!” ????

                          Anyway now I know Linux MX can do it. Also Debian can do it. I also discovered fai-project lately, which allows building a Debian iso the way you like it (among other things). http://fai-project.org

                          Thank you for all your answers.

                          #77509
                          Member
                          seaken64

                            @melodie, yes I know it is not ideal. But the same things happens when there is an upgrade in Windows, say from Win7 to Win10. (I run a business and we use Windows a lot). Sometimes there are no drivers for a perfectly good printer. I just tell the user they have to upgrade the printer if they want to upgrade to Windows 10. Otherwise they stay with windows 7. I had four workstations that the video card was not supported. Have to purchase new graphics cards or put up with poor graphics.

                            In this case, either use a different distro on that workstation or buy a different printer that is supported by the distro in use. Again, not ideal. But that is the way it is.

                            Seaken64

                            #77519
                            Moderator
                            caprea

                              @melodie, are you sure it is a systemd depency? I also now and then used a epson driver from epson side, and cant remember exactly , but the depency was udev or libudev which depends on util-linux ,depending on libsystemd0.
                              But antiX anyway does not need udev it uses eudev.The installer script was for unknown reason not capable to install eudev instead of udev and I had to use some tricks I cant remember to get it to work.Would you mind to tell us the driver?

                              #77530
                              Member
                              afghan

                                I have been used Epson printers for decades, from the ancient 9-pin dot matrix to the latest multi-function (which I just purchased 2 or 3 months ago). I also have used all these printers on a variety of Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, antiX, Arch, LFS, FreeBSD, OpenBSD in all flavours of init systems, and I have never seen any dependencies for drivers, either from Epson or elsewhere, on anything related to init systems.

                                I currently have PCs running Debian with systemd, antiX with both SysV and runit; all using the same printers without problems (except for some minor issue with a missing library in the default install of antiX 21 which is unrelated, and has since been resolved). If you are using drivers downloaded from Epson then you will run into a problem of dependency on LSB 3.2. This is something to do with the driver looking for a filesystem hierachy that conforms to “Linux Standard Base”, mostly because it wants to install the drivers and utilities into /opt folder and then make symbolic links to elsewhere in your system. Debian used to have a lsb-compat package in the repository to take care of this dependency, but it has been deprecated after Debian 9 (if I’m not mistaken). You can still download this package from old official Debian repositories and install it before installing your drivers. Search for lsb-compat_9.20161125_amd64.deb (other flavours have a slightly different filename).

                                My reccomendation to you is to use the “driverless model” for setting up Epson printers. You don’t even need to download any of the Linux drivers from Epson, and you don’t need that lib-compat package from Debian.

                                Try it. You shouldn’t be getting any strange systemd dependencies for printer drivers.

                                Beware of people who knows nothing; they are the ones that won't know that they know nothing.

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