The update on 01/10/2023 lost translations of the first level menus

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

Helpful

Up

0

::

PPC wrote:

@Marcelo and “The Mas” –
It seems that the bug is not as rare as I initially though – I’m not a Developer, not even a real programmer. From what I can see, I think that no user reported that accepting the default answer (not changing the config files) resulted in loosing the correct localization for the menu file, right? That part of my conclusion still applies- stick with the defaults. I’ll try to make a post in the Portuguese tread, going into more detail about why it’s a good practice to do that… But I also present a fix for this problem, for the affected systems (it should work even if you accepted the changes to the config files, during the upgrade process):

antix Menu > Terminal
(copy the command bellow and paste it in the Terminal, press enter, to run the command, then you can close the Terminal):

cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/pt-br/icewm/menu ~/.icewm/

The IceWM menu should instantly be back to normal, in Brasilian Portuguese- this fix allows anyone to follow anticapitalista previous advice, no need to know how to use the terminal.
I tested this fix and instantly got the first layer of the menu in PT-BR.

This does not stop this bug from happening, but does solve the problem instantly!

P.

Thanks PPC! Appreciate the follow-up explanation and the “solution” to the “problem”!

--
Brian Masinick

[Member marcelocripe]

Helpful

Up

0

::

I ask the anticapitalist to clearly explain what users who are new to antiX who do not have command of the terminal or the ability to access the /usr/share/antiX/localisation/ folder and copy the translated menus to their user folder should answer, whether they should answer “y” or “i” to always install the latest versions, or whether they should always answer “n” or “o” to not install the latest versions when they display questions similar to this one:

Configuration file ‘/etc/skel/.fluxbox/menu’
==> Modified (either by you or a script) since installation.
==> The package distributor has released an updated version.
What do you want to do? Your options are:
Y or I : install the maintainer package version
N or O : keep the currently installed version
D : show differences between versions
Z : start a shell to examine the situation
The default action is to keep your current version.
*** menu (Y/I/N/O/D/Z) [default=N] ?

As soon as we receive the response here, I intend to make announcements in the Telegram and WhatsApp groups for Brazilian users to update antiX. Since 01/10/2023, several Brazilians who are in this group are not updating antiX due to the problem and the longer the “official” instruction from the anticapitalista takes, the longer these people have had the operating system without being updated.

I thank everyone who participated in this topic with their suggestions, advice and teachings, but what is asked in the groups (from Telegram and WhatsApp) is an “official” instruction coming from the anticapitalista, since it makes no sense to answer “no” for antiX updates.

– – – – –

Eu peço para o anticapitalista explicar de forma clara o que os usuários iniciantes no antiX que não possuem domínio no uso do terminal ou habilidade para acessar a pasta /usr/share/antiX/localisation/ e copiar os menus traduzidos para a sua pasta do usuário devem responder, se devem responder “y” ou “i” para sempre instalar as versões mais recentes ou se sempre devem responder “n” ou “o” para não instalar as versões mais recentes quando exibe as perguntas semelhantes a essa:

Ficheiro de configuração ‘/etc/skel/.fluxbox/menu’
==> Modificado (por si ou por um script) desde a instalação.
==> O distribuidor do pacote lançou uma versão atualizada.
O que deseja fazer? As suas opções são:
Y ou I : instalar a versão do pacote do maintainer
N ou O : manter a versão actualmente instalada
D : mostrar diferenças entre as versões
Z : iniciar uma shell para examinar a situação
A ação padrão é manter sua versão atual.
*** menu (Y/I/N/O/D/Z) [padrão=N] ?

Assim que recebemos a respota aqui, eu pretendo fazer os comunicados nos grupos de Telegram e WhatsApp para os usuários Brasileiros atualizarem o antiX. Desde o dia 10/01/2023 vários Brasileiros que estão neste grupos não estão atualizando o antiX devido o problema e quanto mais tempo demorar a instrução “oficial” vinda do anticapitalista, mais tempo estas pessoas ficaram com o sistema operacional sem ser atualizado.

Eu agradeço a todos que participaram deste tópico com as suas sugestões, conselhos e ensinamentos, mas o que é pedido nos grupos (de Telegram e WhatsApp) é uma instrução “oficial” vinda do anticapitalista, já que não faz sentido algum responder “não” para as atualizações do antiX.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

Helpful

Up

1

::

There is no one for all answer.

Any updates from Debian should be answered No (default).
Most updates from antiX repos should be answered Yes
Except changes to your apt repositories, then answer No.

As I have posted several times in this thread, no upgrade touches the user’s home directory.
If it has done so in this case, then I cannot fix it as I have no idea what this caused this ‘bug’.

One ‘possible’ cause is using the translations that were installed by the program from the “User Language” menu.
I didn’t use this program.
Have those with issues used it?

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

Helpful

Up

0

::

“One ‘possible’ cause is using the translations that were installed by the program from the “User Language” menu.
I didn’t use this program.
Have those with issues used it?”

That’s the most plausible explanation I can think of too. I’ve never used the translation program and I have never, in over twenty years of using Debian, MEPIS, MX Linux and antiX ever once seeing this, regardless of what I responded to package changes. I’ve answered both yes and no, plus in the past I’ve done a LOT of destructive testing, even randomly mixing distribution repositories, something DEFINITELY NOT recommended!

It takes a lot to break Debian based software. There are defects in programs but only defects in core system libraries and boot loaders render a system unusable. I HAVE experienced that BUT NOT with a Debian based distribution!

--
Brian Masinick

[Member PPC]

Helpful

Up

0

::

anticapitalista wrote:

One ‘possible’ cause is using the translations that were installed by the program from the “User Language” menu.
I didn’t use this program.
Have those with issues used it?

I did use it in my antiX 19 desktop – and it updated fine.
I do no think I used it in antiX 21 (and those machines updated fine, using pt-pt)

Side note (and partly off-topic, sorry):
Using the command I posted above does implement the new updated first layer of the menu– for those unaware of the changes: App-select now is the first entry (and most people expect the “search” field to be the first thing on the menu- by default, antiX does not have a “search field”, but it has the next best thing- a very nice “Search app to search for installed apps”). The new version the menu also does away with the “Help” sub-menu, making the menu a tiny bit simpler (for all those folks that complained antiX’s menu was “too bloated”).
Overall, I think the updated menu increases it’s usability, specially for people using antiX for the first time, trying to adapt to a new OS!

P.

[Member marcelocripe]

Helpful

Up

0

::

One ‘possible’ cause is using the translations that were installed by the program from the “User Language” menu.
I didn’t use this program.
Have those with issues used it?

The answer is yes.
After installing antiX, I restart the computer with the hard disk, I apply the antiX update, then I use the “User Language” menu program, which in turn installs the pt_BR translation (or any other language that antiX is started) to the various application programs, including LibreOffice, Firefox-ESR, and other programs that I won’t know list here without looking at the window that appears after clicking the “Locate Programs” button (this program is still is not translated, but my translations are available on the official Transifex resource “locale-antixpot”). The “Translate Menus” button does nothing so far and as far as I have information it intends to translate the submenus of the Application Categories.

Why would a program that installs translation packages for other programs interfere with the first level menu?

I would like to apologize for forgetting to include the word “please” in my previous text, as you are under no obligation to give us “official” instructions. However, your instructions to me and other Brazilians are always considered official.

Thank you very much!

– – – – –

One ‘possible’ cause is using the translations that were installed by the program from the “User Language” menu.
I didn’t use this program.
Have those with issues used it?

A resposta é sim.
Após a instalação do antiX,eu reinicio o computador com o disco rígido, eu aplico a atualização do antiX, em seguida utilizo o programa do menu “Idioma do Usuário”, que por sua vez instala a tradução pt_BR (ou de qualquer outro idioma que o antiX for inicializado) para os vários programas aplicativos, entre eles o LibreOffice, Firefox-ESR, além de outros programas que eu não saberei lista aqui sem olhar para a janela que é exibida após clicar no botão “Localize Programs” (este programa ainda não está traduzido, mas as minhas traduções estão disponíveis no Transifex oficial do recurso “locale-antixpot”). O botão “Translate Menus” até o presente momento não faz nada e até onde eu possuo informações pretende traduzir os submenus das Categorias dos Aplicativos.

Por qual motivo um programa que instala os pacotes de tradução para outros programas iria interferir no menu do primeiro nível?

Eu gostaria de pedir desculpas por me esquecer de incluir no meu texto anterior a palavra “por favor”, haja vista que você não tem obrigação nenhuma de nos dar instruções “oficiais”. Contudo, as suas instruções para mim e para os outros Brasileiros sempre são consideras como oficiais.

Muito obrigado!

[Member Wallon]

Helpful

Up

1

::

Hello to all.

I wish you a happy new year 2023 and all the people you hold dear in your heart.

I have updated antiX fr_fr and I have the same experience as Marcelocripe. My main iceWM menu is in English.

I answered “Y” to all the questions.

I have not yet tested with a fr_BE installation.

The year 2023 starts well.

Best regards,
Wallon

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

Helpful

Up

0

::

Happy 2023 to you Wallon and to those who are dear to you.
I haven’t worked with language localization in over twenty years, so I’m no longer a reliable resource in that area, but as far as installations in general, it hasn’t mattered in terms of functionality which way I’ve responded to package changes; it only affects whether I want the package changes to the templates or not; both have worked for me.

--
Brian Masinick

[Member marcelocripe]

Helpful

Up

0

::

I need to make some considerations regarding the identifier of the language and country of the folders contained in the path /usr/share/antiX/localisation, the language “pt-br” should be written as follows “pt_BR”, as well as the languages “es_ES “, “fil_PH”, “fr_BE”.

Wallon, happy new year to you and your family too.

Glad you came to this thread and helped to test in your language. I imagine that you have made this update in antiX 21. In the tests that I was able to do, the problem occurred only in antiX 21 and did not occur in antiX 22. But the tests were done on computers that their owner had not known what to do with so many questions that it ended up answering a few questions and closing the Terminal window before completing the upgrade. This caused problems in dpkg which were fixed with the command that is suggested when I tried to apply the sudo apt update and sudo apt upgrade commands.

The commands in the Terminal taught by the PPC made the menus translate again into “pt_BR”:

cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/pt-br/icewm/menu ~/.icewm/
cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/pt-br/jwm/menu ~/.jwm/
cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/pt-br/fluxbox/menu ~/.fluxbox

Successfully patched all IceWM, JWM and Fluxbox desktops.

In your case, Wallon, in Belgian French language should be:

cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/fr_BE/icewm/menu ~/.icewm/
cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/fr_BE/jwm/menu ~/.jwm/
cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/fr_BE/fluxbox/menu ~/.fluxbox

Did the problems only occur in languages with more than two letters?
And in the case of the “pt_BR” language, was it due to the wrong nomenclature “pt-br”?

– – – – –

Eu preciso fazer algumas considerações quanto ao identificador do idioma e país das pastas contidas no caminho /usr/share/antiX/localisation, o idioma “pt-br” deveria estar escrito da seguinte forma “pt_BR”, assim como estão os idiomas “es_ES”,  “fil_PH”, “fr_BE”.

Wallon, feliz ano novo para você e para a sua família também.

Ainda bem que você veio a este tópico e ajudou a testar em seu idioma. Eu imagino que você tenha feito esta atualização no antiX 21. Nos testes que eu pude fazer, o problema ocorreu apenas no antiX 21 e não acorreu no antiX 22. Mas os testes foram feitos em computadores que o seu dono havia ficado sem saber o que fazer com tantas perguntas que acabou respondendo algumas perguntas e fechou a janela do Terminal antes de concluir a atualização. Isso causou problemas no dpkg que foram corrigidos com o comando que é sugerido quando eu tentei aplicar os comandos sudo apt update e sudo apt upgrade.

Os comandos no Terminal ensinados pelo PPC fizeram traduzir novamente os menus em “pt_BR”:

cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/pt-br/icewm/menu ~/.icewm/
cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/pt-br/jwm/menu ~/.jwm/
cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/pt-br/fluxbox/menu ~/.fluxbox

Corrigiu com sucesso todas as áreas de trabalho IceWM, JWM e Fluxbox.

No seu caso, Wallon, em idioma Francês da Bélgica deve ser:

cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/fr_BE/icewm/menu ~/.icewm/
cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/fr_BE/jwm/menu ~/.jwm/
cp /usr/share/antiX/localisation/fr_BE/fluxbox/menu ~/.fluxbox

Será que os problemas ocorreram apenas nos idiomas de mais de duas letras?
E no caso do idioma “pt_BR”, será que ocorreu devido a nomenclatura errada “pt-br”?

[Member Wallon]

Helpful

Up

0

::

Dear Marcelocripe,

I have just updated antiX fr_BE and answered yes to all the questions.
I don’t understand the philosophy of sending updates and saying no! So why send updates?
I also lost the main menu in French. The main menu is in English in iceWM.
For your question of whether I am on antiX 21 or antiX 22, I don’t understand anything anymore! I thought that antiX 21 was updated directly to antiX 22.
I’m going to put in a system info but I don’t think it’s any use. I can no longer tell if I am on antiX 21 or 22.
I have this problem on antiX installed in fr (with Belgian azerty keyboard) and in fr_BE. So, it affects both a French and a French (Belgium) installation.
I used the notifier updater application (with the green box) to do my updates.
I also read on some threads that we are not smart enough to use a terminal with command lines. So, the easiest thing to do is to never update your linux system again after a successful installation. Never update your kernel, security patches, software with new features… because you could break your system.
I’m confused and don’t know what to recommend to people who want to use Linux.
It’s annoying for people who don’t know the name of the programs in English. You and I are translators and we recognize the names of the programs in English. So we know how to use antiX. But for people who are not translators, they don’t recognize the programs.

System:
  Kernel: 5.19.0-0.deb11.2-rt-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 10.2.1
    parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.19.0-0.deb11.2-rt-amd64 root=PARTUUID=75d5853a-02 ro quiet
  Desktop: IceWM v: 3.3.0 vt: 7 dm: slimski v: 1.5.0
    Distro: antiX-21_x64-full Grup Yorum 31 October 2021 base: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)

Kind regards,
Wallon

[Member Robin]

Helpful

Up

0

::

Dear Wallon,
I believe you are right. There must be some kind of bug in this update.

My findings on this while updating my system:

desktop-defaults-fluxbox-antix (0.6.0) wird eingerichtet …
desktop-defaults-icewm-antix (0.6.0) wird eingerichtet …
desktop-defaults-jwm-antix (0.8.0) wird eingerichtet …

These three packages ask to replace 20 files in /etc/skel.

I’ve checked all of them manually for the differences using d option in apt on commandline.

It turned out, that all translations are reset to English in /etc/skel, for icewm, jwm and fluxbox. Not only for the menus, but also for the tray.

So, when creating a new account on a system, all menus and the tray will come up in English language. Hence I decided not to accept the new configuration files and keep the translated ones by choosing N for all.

No changes have been done to user’s home folder directly by the update.

After apt was ready with updating, menus have been written out as usually, and the translation was still present.

I can’t tell whether it would have been a different result if I had choosen J instead of N.

But, since people expect to get new accounts on the system also created with properly translated menus, at least the removal of translations from /etc/skel is to be considered as a bug in these packages. Something must have gone seriously wrong here.

Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

Helpful

Up

0

::

Robin wrote:

…
But, since people expect to get new accounts on the system also created with properly translated menus, at least the removal of translations from /etc/skel is to be considered as a bug in these packages. Something must have gone seriously wrong here.

See my answer above – re all updated menus will be in English

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member Robin]

Helpful

Up

0

::

anticapitalista wrote:

re all updated menus will be in English

Sorry, anticapitalista, trying hard, I cant make anything from this part of your sentence while trying to understand its meaning in English language (what does mean “re all updated menus”?). And also I’m not sure about the idea of your former statements you refer to: Sure, you say (and I can confirm) no changes are made to users homes directly (at least under the conditions on my system, never used this program for user language you mention). But is it actually what is intended by this package update: changing the language of menu pattern files in /etc/skel to English on all foreign language systems? What is the purpose of this? Is it meant as kind of an incomplete update, still waiting for future translation in a (or some more) followup update(s)? If so, I believe this is not the best strategy for updating a core component of user interface: It means, all new user accounts created on updated systems in foreign languages are unusable by people not understanding English language all of a sudden. Not the best idea on multi-user systems, running in schools or similar. OK, on these the local admin should have checked the update before rolling out and blocked it (at least if there is an admin). Nevertheless, this kind of issues after an update is OK for an unstable branch like “sid”, not for a stable one I believe.

Btw, Please, could you point out which resource is it on transifex we need to fill in again to have the translations for new user accounts created from /etc/skel back to normal in next updates? (Which the same time will probably fix the issues of reset of translation for recent user, observed by Wallon, Marcelo and others).

Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

Helpful

Up

1

::

One comment above says: “I don’t understand the philosophy of sending updates and saying no! So why send updates?”

When a package affecting translation templates – that is, the templates copied from /etc/skel to your personal window manager defaults,
this is the situation when you DO NOT want to say YES to this; say NO or n. The reason is that if you already have localized personal window manager
settings, you DO NOT want to change them. Instead, if there actually ARE changes to localization values for a particular language/locale and you have
them installed, updates should come through via an update to the PACKAGE for that locale only, NOT by responding with Y to every package change.

I’ll go further than that: don’t say Y to any package updates unless you thoroughly understand what a Y response will provide, rather than a N, which
will keep a configuration as it currently is.

If you have ALREADY answered Y, and all of your /etc/skel localizations copied to your configuration are now in English, one way to correct them is to use the example Marcelo provides in post #97375 and PPC has previously explained (and I copied to post #97328).

--
Brian Masinick

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

Helpful

Up

3

::

@Robin – the ‘new’ menus and tray/taskbar/toolbar changes all show up in /usr/share/antiX/localisation for all supported locales.

We have no idea what localisation has been chosen at live boot or even changed after installation. We have always defaulted the icewm/fluxbox/jwm menus/tray etc and rox/zzzfm/desktop localistion to be in English.
So if a user is not using English localisation, any updates to desktop-default-icewm/flubox/jwm/rox/zzzfm will be prompted to accept mainatainers changes.
These users should answer No if they decide in the future to add new users (therefore keeping their chosen localisation)
For single user desktops (for want of a better word), it should not make any difference if user choose Y or N.

However, it seems that there is something somewhere causing the menus in the home directory to be changed (forget about any changes in /etc/skel).
We need to find the cause of it where it has occurred. I’m not saying that it didn’t happen, but we can only fix this if we know how it happened.
Since the original bug report, I have tested various scenarios and have not been able to reproduce this bug.
I tried el_GR, pt_BR, fr_BE with no loss of original localised menus.

Hope this helps

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Author]

Posts