To modernize antiX or …

Forum Forums antiX-development Graphics To modernize antiX or …

This topic contains 68 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by skidoo Jun 19-2:17 pm.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 69 total)
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  • #23150
    Member
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    seaken64

    Win-win would be good. I just hope that whatever attempts are made to compete with the “best brands” don’t overthrow the real beauty of antiX. Maybe antiX can be more attractive to newbies and candy-lovers but still be stripped of the nonsense by the user who doesn’t need that stuff.

    I guess it’s more the opposite right now. The candy and fluff can be added if you want. But maybe not by newbies or non-techies.

    All I know is that antiX works magic on a Pentium 4 with 512 MB ram. I don’t want to see that go away. I don’t care how many pretty pictures I miss.

    Seaken64

    #23157
    Moderator
    masinick
    masinick

    One of the best features of the antiX distribution is flexibility.
    You can make it work in whatever way you please.

    The default configuration is always good too. I don’t expect any of these great traits to go away.

    Brian Masinick

    #23159
    Member
    ile
    ile

    anitX . Always has been; without saying anything antiX insisted that I get comfortable with antiX being anti-everything. anti-everything [except attitude] includes anti-theme. period. that is antiX.

    https://distrowatch.com/images/screenshots/antix-11.png
    this is acceptably beautifully stylish in 2019, as it was in antiX M11.
    someone said the logo now needs to be in the upper left.

    #23161
    Member
    manyroads
    manyroads

    Funny though when I was developing & sharing a prototype a proof of concept on creating a homogenous look & feel for antiX19alpha, all I got was flack from @noclue.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by manyroads.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by manyroads.

    Pax vobiscum,
    Mark Rabideau - http://many-roads.com
    bspwm MX-18.3 kernel: 5.2.15-antix.1-amd64-smp
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
    MX- antiX- BL- ArchLabs

    #23165
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    skidoo

    In my reading, the message seemed to be “That’s not enough. If that’s all you’re doing, just homogenizing, it’s pointless”.

    ^– that, along with “fluxbox is ugly. fluxbox must die.”

    #23170
    Member
    Koo
    Koo

    Fluxbox & Herbi to me anyways are the best WM antiX come with everything else are just windows spin off sorry.

    And really it is 2019 my T430 and x220 that are over 10 years old and can run windows if they can handle that pile. Linux is like heaven.

    Keep up the Good work troops..

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Koo.
    #23176
    Avatar
    Anonymous

    @ manyroads

    “Funny though when I was developing & sharing a prototype a proof of concept on creating a homogeneous look & feel for antiX19alpha, all I got was flack from @noclue.”

    I actually liked very much what you did. And no, I’m not ironic/sarcastic as (too) often.
    I honestly mean what I say.

    I’d be very happy if you would make a nice Conky.

    You’re into it and I don’t really have that much time and also, don’t really feel like doing it.

    Now the problem …

    The problem is, you ignore the reality and the facts in favor of your own taste and the result is insane.

    Reading is more than just simply recognizing the single characters, connecting them into a word and chaining them into a sentence. Reading means/includes the understanding of that sentence too. Everybody can learn ‘reading’ but not everybody is able to read (== to think and to understand).

    The problem is the lack of sense in ‘homogenizing’ and no matter what you want or believe, you can’t change the facts.

    There are many (and even some much better) examples but, I’ve no time for ‘chasing’ them around and so, I’ll take this sentence as one simple example.

    What does it tell you?

    “NoClue, in my experience, the effort to attract users with eye-candy leads to software that is sluggish and requires more powerful machines. There is nothing inherently wrong with eye-candy and more power. But it is not necessary. … I am not against style. But I don’t want to change antiX into a distro that caters to it. I want antiX to continue to cater to old machines. … All I know is that antiX works magic on a Pentium 4 with 512 MB ram. I don’t want to see that go away.”

    First ‘homogenizing’ …

    Did you ever ask yourself, why do we have that many different WM/DE’s at the first place?

    Sometimes, the difference is that one gives you the right click start menu and the other one gives you right click start menu (there is no mistake in that sentence).

    It’s those very tiny differences that people learn to love (or hate) over time and that makes ‘fans’ out of them.

    ‘Good’, ‘bad’, ‘better’, ‘worse’ … irrelevant. They’ll stick to it, no matter what.

    Respect the ‘soul’ of WM.

    Homogenizing is counterproductive. It kills the reasons why the people stick to it.

    Second ‘patchwork’ …

    You can take OB and start adding the stuff to it but, what you get will still never become competitive against Deepin or Plasma or … except in one point — you can achieve the same memory usage or even overpass it.

    Reality is real.
    The numbers are real.
    The concept has to be well thought.

    That’s why antiX needs to rethink its concept too but, that’s the whole another story.

    P.S.
    Think about the Conky. I’ll be very glad if you would choose to help me on that matter.

    #23180
    Moderator
    fatmac
    fatmac

    I’m pretty much with ‘seaken64’ – this distro caters for old machines really well, that being one of its prime reasons for existence, & a lot of distros seem to be abandoning 32bit too, so we fill a niche, whether we look pretty to new comers or not – I’m not against it looking more ‘up to date’, but it works well as it stands.

    Are we, as a distro, really looking to attract new comers specifically, or are we here for those that recognize a good distro when they see it(?). 🙂

    Linux (& BSD) since 1999

    #23181
    Moderator
    fatmac
    fatmac

    Think about the Conky.

    Conky is an information panel.

    I don’t need it to run my system, I can find the information I need at the command line.

    Is it useful, maybe, some people like it being there – myself, I usually disable it – just personal preference.

    Remember though, it does use up some resources, of which old machines have little to spare.

    Does it need to look fancy, no, but if you want to, you can make it look amazing, if you have the spare resources.

    Linux (& BSD) since 1999

    #23183
    Member
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    PPC

    Just my 2 cents worth:
    My own personal opinion is that antiX is the best full featured distro for PC’s with low specs. It is, maybe my design, made to look like windows98 or even Windows 7 without the aero option turned on. It works great for users comming from those OS’s, but, well, looks a bit dated.
    Anti gave his “blessing” to people using the themes/wallpapers/icons available in the forum but expressly said he does not want to change the distro looks any more that were already changed (nicer fonts, nicer icon theme, very nice wallpapers), it’s his “baby” so we have to respect that decision.
    I’m aware that antiX is not made to appeal to the masses. Most of the folks that use it have, at least some degree of experience using the command line. But I also think that people used to only GUI configuration options from moderns OS will run away screaming and not look back if they ask in the forum how to get a Firefox icon on the “bar thingy” and they get a response along this lines “Welcome! It’s easy- just open the control centre- edit JWM configurations and add the path to the firefox icon and the command to run it…”
    So, having what are probably the most used features of any modern Os- the internet browser and a file manager- available as a quick as possible is a way to manage to:- be and look more modern, -be easier to use…
    As a “bonus”- if the OS looks appealing, without any extra cost on system resources– like having matching themes all around, not having a boot process that to most users seem like the hacking they see on the movies, etc, etc, the more newbies will arrive to antiX and stick to it…

    P.

    #23184
    Avatar
    Anonymous

    @ fatmac

    1. I already said — one should NEVER ask the hardcore fans & forum veterans on their opinions

    2. “… this distro caters for old machines really well, that being one of its prime reasons for existence …”

    … and it will perform just as good (or bad) with ‘updated/fresh look’. 😉

    Bad font choice uses exact same resources as the good font choice.
    Just as example (because we are not discussing font here).

    3. “I’m not against it looking more ‘up to date’, but it works well as it stands.”

    It works well.
    Unpainted car also drives well.
    Painted car shows us that the manufacturer was THINKING, PLANING and CARING.
    Unpainted shows us: if they’re not able to give it a proper finish, who knows what else they f****d up.
    I suppose, you wouldn’t buy unpainted car, right?

    One picture-example (bad though, since I changed the icon set, so the actual problem is much smaller than in the original):

    1. Icon is ‘screwed up’
    2. Icon is ‘alive ‘n’ kicking’
    3. The difference? 1 (one) click!

    What does it teach us?

    1. Lack of knowledge
    2. Lack of taste
    3. Both

    4. & 5. Even the Program Startup Screens are customized!
    It simply makes joy to use instead of pain, like MX.
    And they’re both the same XFCE.

    Many MX issues apply to antiX too but, it actually doesn’t matter about which distro we’re talking about.
    We’re discussing conceptual matters here (== in this post), not a specific issues of distro X or Y.

    Disclaimer:
    This was only one single example out of so many, that one could easily write a ‘how-NOT-to’ book.

    #23191
    Member
    Avatar
    olsztyn

    Just my 2 cents worth:
    My own personal opinion is that antiX is the best full featured distro for PC’s with low specs. It is, maybe my design, made to look like windows98 or even Windows 7 without the aero option turned on. It works great for users comming from those OS’s, but, well, looks a bit dated.
    Anti gave his “blessing” to people using the themes/wallpapers/icons available in the forum but expressly said he does not want to change the distro looks any more that were already changed (nicer fonts, nicer icon theme, very nice wallpapers), it’s his “baby” so we have to respect that decision.
    I’m aware that antiX is not made to appeal to the masses. Most of the folks that use it have, at least some degree of experience using the command line. But I also think that people used to only GUI configuration options from moderns OS will run away screaming and not look back if they ask in the forum how to get a Firefox icon on the “bar thingy” and they get a response along this lines “Welcome! It’s easy- just open the control centre- edit JWM configurations and add the path to the firefox icon and the command to run it…”
    So, having what are probably the most used features of any modern Os- the internet browser and a file manager- available as a quick as possible is a way to manage to:- be and look more modern, -be easier to use…
    As a “bonus”- if the OS looks appealing, without any extra cost on system resources– like having matching themes all around, not having a boot process that to most users seem like the hacking they see on the movies, etc, etc, the more newbies will arrive to antiX and stick to it…

    P.

    Well said. I happen to agree with everything you outlined and furthermore:
    – antiX is good for all spectrum machines – not just low specs. It works on i7 equally well for users for whom useless eyecandy and k-junk bloat is not the only goal of OS.
    – I consider myself ‘masses’. Just an user. However this does not mean I accept whatever is thrown at me in the form of typical and useless bloat and eyecandy by hundreds of common distros strayed from original path of Linux in effort to imitate eyecandy of Widows 7.
    – Your last statement is right on the nail. Minimum aesthetics are important, whatever can be done without losing efficiency and dexterity.
    Thanks and Regards.

    #23195
    Member
    Avatar
    skidoo

    antiX is good for all spectrum machines

    Right. My “lean” mindset, e.g. retrieving weather forcast via commandline “curl wttr.in”, isn’t motivated by a lack of system resources.

    .

    #23198
    Member
    Avatar
    PPC

    antiX is good for all spectrum machines
    >

    @Skidoo: Nods, if antiX runs great on a single core atom Netbook with 1 gig of RAM, it flies on any machine with higher specs than that 🙂
    On my desktop, with triple that RAM, and a bit more processing power, I notice how smooth it runs, even compared to MX that I have installed in that machine.
    But the OS name, read “antics” suggests it’s initially aimed at older hardware, right?
    Maybe I should have said something like “for very old PC’s or better hardware”? 🙂

    P.S: A tech site refers to antiX 17.1 as “the Linux that boots in less than 10 seconds” (which sparked some user comments about Windows “booting” almost instantly, and some users suggesting people should spend money on better computers to be able to run the latest Windows!!!)
    Antix takes about 1 minute to boot on my netbook, but also comes out of suspension in about a 1 second. Not bad for a 10 year old netbook…
    P.

    #23199
    Member
    Xecure
    Xecure

    I don’t know what is going on, but I think people have diverged to a strange discussion. What I see is people who want antiX to keep and improve the great performance it has for old machines, and others who want antiX to improve its appearance out of the box. In my opinion, these ideas are not opposed to each other, but can be combined..

    noClue is sharing not only ideas, but he is materializing them. His suggestions for upgrading the visual aspect of antiX can be used by ANY user, no matter if they are adopted officially or not.
    The same goes for manyroads, who’s efforts to give more desktop options to antiX users takes lots of time and it is fantastically compiled in his articles (great knowledge-base, by the way) for anyone to enjoy. He is also giving us options for those not content with the defacto desktops.
    The same goes for all people who have shared how they have improved their machines, be it with instructions (like the fantastic article PPC created for modernizing fluxbox using skidoo’s fluxbox fork, or skidoo’s articles about how IceWM works, those are some of the most recent), wallpapers, ideas, etc.
    And finally the antiX devs, Gods among men, really make this project run on almost any device, via live-USB or installed, and was the reason I initially came here.

    I can only thank all of you for all your effort in bringing improvements for everyone (be it creating new stuff or helping users figure out what is going on in their machines). You are creating value for others, which in my opinion is what makes society move forward.

    If someone likes or dislikes how the out-of-the-box desktop looks, or the changes proposed by the community look, they can always change it themselves. I don’t understand the fear of change, when this change is only visual. The distro will keep running well and the devs will not go crazy and sacrifice antiX’s performance to the gods of visual goodness. We all know that “how it works” is more important than “how it looks”, but improving the looks is also improving the experience.

    I will also share a “theme” of the proposed look for fluxbox (as this is the desktop I am comfortable with) and that also kind of matches the new official antiX wallpaper (it includes an svg file with all used windows buttons in case someone wants to adapt them to their own fluxbox style).

    @noClue
    Maybe it is because of my eyesight, but I believe the non-active window title should be of a different color (not only the text as you have it, but the title background also) so I can easily know which is the active window. (Maybe it is already, but on your screenshots I wasn’t able to notice it).

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