- This topic has 36 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated Dec 22-6:58 am by zeh.
-
Posts
-
zeh
Translating the kb shortcuts associated with some entries/strings sometimes makes the shortcut incongruent with the word/entry it refers to.
Let’s take ‘Help’ and its kb shortcut ‘Alt+H’, as an example. The translation of ‘Help’ into Portuguese is ‘Ajuda’, hence it doesn’t make much sense to keep the ‘Alt+H’ shortcut. I mean, it’s not easy for a non speaker of English to remember ‘tipless’ shortcuts. However, translating ‘Alt+H’ as ‘Alt+A’, for instance, doesn’t have any effect in the shortcut itself, I believe. Am I right? If so, is there any way for a translator to define ‘translated shortcuts’? Maybe something similar to the underlined letters in the menu entries, who can be changed in the translations?Anonymous
However, translating ‘Alt+H’ as ‘Alt+A’, for instance, doesn’t have any effect in the shortcut itself, I believe. Am I right?
You are completely wrong (‘Alt+H’ would, for example, mark the complete text on one website).
Most shortcuts are occupied and computers are not made for everybody.You’d have to change all this, plus x-time more from one to another language and it still wouldn’t make any sense on many languages or you’d need the same shortcut more then once.
Who can’t speak English should:
1. Learn English
2. Use cheat sheet
3. Stop using computer
(or stop using shortcuts)I know it sounds harsh and it may cause a debate but, that’s how it is, if someone likes it or not.
No matter on which corner or the edge of the round world you live, you must be able to speak English if you are to use a computer for more then open the web browser and go to You Tube. And … if we’re honest, you can’t really watch some local TV program if you can’t speak English — there’s always something on English around, even if you don’t realize it.The answer to “Is there any way?” varies. Within the code of some programs, the keybind mappings are hardcoded ~~ for instance the program’s help popup will only ever be displayed if an Alt+H keypress event is detected (regardless of locale-specific strings displayed to any text/labels displayed within the program’s UI).
For fluxbox (probably similar/identical for iceWM and JWM), the mappings are assigned within the …/keys file.
To accomplish the goal you’ve described, multiple separate files could be drafted: keys_af, keys_af-NA, keys_af-ZA, keys_agq, keys_agq-CM, keys_ak, keys_ak-GH, keys_am, keys_am-ET, keys_ar, keys_ar-001, keys_ar-AE, keys_ar-BH, keys_ar-DZ, keys_ar-EG, keys_ar-IQ, keys_ar-JO, keys_ar-KW, keys_ar-LB, keys_ar-LY, keys_ar-MA, keys_ar-OM, keys_ar-QA, keys_ar-SA, keys_ar-SD, keys_ar-SY, keys_ar-TN, keys_ar-YE, keys_as, keys_as-IN, keys_asa, keys_asa-TZ, keys_az, keys_az-Cyrl, keys_az-Cyrl-AZ, keys_az-Latn, keys_az-Latn-AZ, keys_bas, keys_bas-CM, keys_be, keys_be-BY, keys_bem, keys_bem-ZM, keys_bez, keys_bez-TZ, keys_bg, keys_bg-BG, keys_bm, keys_bm-ML, keys_bn, keys_bn-BD, keys_bn-IN, keys_bo, keys_bo-CN, keys_bo-IN, keys_br, keys_br-FR, keys_brx, keys_brx-IN, keys_bs, keys_bs-BA, keys_ca, keys_ca-ES, keys_cgg, keys_cgg-UG, keys_chr, keys_chr-US, keys_cs, keys_cs-CZ, keys_cy, keys_cy-GB, keys_da, keys_da-DK, keys_dav, keys_dav-KE, keys_de, keys_de-AT, keys_de-BE, keys_de-CH, keys_de-DE, keys_de-LI, keys_de-LU, keys_dje, keys_dje-NE, keys_dua, keys_dua-CM, keys_dyo, keys_dyo-SN, keys_ebu, keys_ebu-KE, keys_ee, keys_ee-GH, keys_ee-TG, keys_el, keys_el-CY, keys_el-GR, keys_en, keys_en-AS, keys_en-AU, keys_en-BB, keys_en-BE, keys_en-BM, keys_en-BW, keys_en-BZ, keys_en-CA, keys_en-GB, keys_en-GU, keys_en-GY, keys_en-HK, keys_en-IE, keys_en-IN, keys_en-JM, keys_en-MH, keys_en-MP, keys_en-MT, keys_en-MU, keys_en-NA, keys_en-NZ, keys_en-PH, keys_en-PK, keys_en-SG, keys_en-TT, keys_en-UM, keys_en-US, keys_en-US-POSIX, keys_en-VI, keys_en-ZA, keys_en-ZW, keys_eo, keys_es, keys_es-419, keys_es-AR, keys_es-BO, keys_es-CL, keys_es-CO, keys_es-CR, keys_es-DO, keys_es-EC, keys_es-ES, keys_es-GQ, keys_es-GT, keys_es-HN, keys_es-MX, keys_es-NI, keys_es-PA, keys_es-PE, keys_es-PR, keys_es-PY, keys_es-SV, keys_es-US, keys_es-UY, keys_es-VE, keys_et, keys_et-EE, keys_eu, keys_eu-ES, keys_ewo, keys_ewo-CM, keys_fa, keys_fa-AF, keys_fa-IR, keys_ff, keys_ff-SN, keys_fi, keys_fi-FI, keys_fil, keys_fil-PH, keys_fo, keys_fo-FO, keys_fr, keys_fr-BE, keys_fr-BF, keys_fr-BI, keys_fr-BJ, keys_fr-BL, keys_fr-CA, keys_fr-CD, keys_fr-CF, keys_fr-CG, keys_fr-CH, keys_fr-CI, keys_fr-CM, keys_fr-DJ, keys_fr-FR, keys_fr-GA, keys_fr-GF, keys_fr-GN, keys_fr-GP, keys_fr-GQ, keys_fr-KM, keys_fr-LU, keys_fr-MC, keys_fr-MF, keys_fr-MG, keys_fr-ML, keys_fr-MQ, keys_fr-NE, keys_fr-RE, keys_fr-RW, keys_fr-SN, keys_fr-TD, keys_fr-TG, keys_fr-YT, keys_ga, keys_ga-IE, keys_gl, keys_gl-ES, keys_gsw, keys_gsw-CH, keys_gu, keys_gu-IN, keys_guz, keys_guz-KE, keys_gv, keys_gv-GB, keys_ha, keys_ha-Latn, keys_ha-Latn-GH, keys_ha-Latn-NE, keys_ha-Latn-NG, keys_haw, keys_haw-US, keys_he, keys_he-IL, keys_hi, keys_hi-IN, keys_hr, keys_hr-HR, keys_hu, keys_hu-HU, keys_hy, keys_hy-AM, keys_id, keys_id-ID, keys_ig, keys_ig-NG, keys_ii, keys_ii-CN, keys_is, keys_is-IS, keys_it, keys_it-CH, keys_it-IT, keys_ja, keys_ja-JP, keys_jmc, keys_jmc-TZ, keys_ka, keys_ka-GE, keys_kab, keys_kab-DZ, keys_kam, keys_kam-KE, keys_kde, keys_kde-TZ, keys_kea, keys_kea-CV, keys_khq, keys_khq-ML, keys_ki, keys_ki-KE, keys_kk, keys_kk-Cyrl, keys_kk-Cyrl-KZ, keys_kl, keys_kl-GL, keys_kln, keys_kln-KE, keys_km, keys_km-KH, keys_kn, keys_kn-IN, keys_ko, keys_ko-KR, keys_kok, keys_kok-IN, keys_ksb, keys_ksb-TZ, keys_ksf, keys_ksf-CM, keys_kw, keys_kw-GB, keys_lag, keys_lag-TZ, keys_lg, keys_lg-UG, keys_ln, keys_ln-CD, keys_ln-CG, keys_lt, keys_lt-LT, keys_lu, keys_lu-CD, keys_luo, keys_luo-KE, keys_luy, keys_luy-KE, keys_lv, keys_lv-LV, keys_mas, keys_mas-KE, keys_mas-TZ, keys_mer, keys_mer-KE, keys_mfe, keys_mfe-MU, keys_mg, keys_mg-MG, keys_mgh, keys_mgh-MZ, keys_mk, keys_mk-MK, keys_ml, keys_ml-IN, keys_mr, keys_mr-IN, keys_ms, keys_ms-BN, keys_ms-MY, keys_mt, keys_mt-MT, keys_mua, keys_mua-CM, keys_my, keys_my-MM, keys_naq, keys_naq-NA, keys_nb, keys_nb-NO, keys_nd, keys_nd-ZW, keys_ne, keys_ne-IN, keys_ne-NP, keys_nl, keys_nl-AW, keys_nl-BE, keys_nl-CW, keys_nl-NL, keys_nl-SX, keys_nmg, keys_nmg-CM, keys_nn, keys_nn-NO, keys_nus, keys_nus-SD, keys_nyn, keys_nyn-UG, keys_om, keys_om-ET, keys_om-KE, keys_or, keys_or-IN, keys_pa, keys_pa-Arab, keys_pa-Arab-PK, keys_pa-Guru, keys_pa-Guru-IN, keys_pl, keys_pl-PL, keys_ps, keys_ps-AF, keys_pt, keys_pt-AO, keys_pt-BR, keys_pt-GW, keys_pt-MZ, keys_pt-PT, keys_pt-ST, keys_rm, keys_rm-CH, keys_rn, keys_rn-BI, keys_ro, keys_ro-MD, keys_ro-RO, keys_rof, keys_rof-TZ, keys_ru, keys_ru-MD, keys_ru-RU, keys_ru-UA, keys_rw, keys_rw-RW, keys_rwk, keys_rwk-TZ, keys_saq, keys_saq-KE, keys_sbp, keys_sbp-TZ, keys_seh, keys_seh-MZ, keys_ses, keys_ses-ML, keys_sg, keys_sg-CF, keys_shi, keys_shi-Latn, keys_shi-Latn-MA, keys_shi-Tfng, keys_shi-Tfng-MA, keys_si, keys_si-LK, keys_sk, keys_sk-SK, keys_sl, keys_sl-SI, keys_sn, keys_sn-ZW, keys_so, keys_so-DJ, keys_so-ET, keys_so-KE, keys_so-SO, keys_sq, keys_sq-AL, keys_sr, keys_sr-Cyrl, keys_sr-Cyrl-BA, keys_sr-Cyrl-ME, keys_sr-Cyrl-RS, keys_sr-Latn, keys_sr-Latn-BA, keys_sr-Latn-ME, keys_sr-Latn-RS, keys_sv, keys_sv-FI, keys_sv-SE, keys_sw, keys_sw-KE, keys_sw-TZ, keys_swc, keys_swc-CD, keys_ta, keys_ta-IN, keys_ta-LK, keys_te, keys_te-IN, keys_teo, keys_teo-KE, keys_teo-UG, keys_th, keys_th-TH, keys_ti, keys_ti-ER, keys_ti-ET, keys_to, keys_to-TO, keys_tr, keys_tr-TR, keys_twq, keys_twq-NE, keys_tzm, keys_tzm-Latn, keys_tzm-Latn-MA, keys_uk, keys_uk-UA, keys_ur, keys_ur-IN, keys_ur-PK, keys_uz, keys_uz-Arab, keys_uz-Arab-AF, keys_uz-Cyrl, keys_uz-Cyrl-UZ, keys_uz-Latn, keys_uz-Latn-UZ, keys_vai, keys_vai-Latn, keys_vai-Latn-LR, keys_vai-Vaii, keys_vai-Vaii-LR, keys_vi, keys_vi-VN, keys_vun, keys_vun-TZ, keys_xog, keys_xog-UG, keys_yav, keys_yav-CM, keys_yo, keys_yo-NG, keys_zh, keys_zh-Hans, keys_zh-Hans-CN, keys_zh-Hans-HK, keys_zh-Hans-MO, keys_zh-Hans-SG, keys_zh-Hant, keys_zh-Hant-HK, keys_zh-Hant-MO, keys_zh-Hant-TW, keys_zu, keys_zu-ZAand those would be included in the distributed package. At time of installation, we cannot presume which and how many of those files will be appropriate for each user on the system, so would need to preserve a copy of each under, say, /etc/skel/.fluxbox/keys_localized_defaults/
A script called at the outset of each desktop login session could detect the user’s current keyboard layout (but what about kb “variants”?). If the current (locale?) (kb?) is br-FR… and ~/.fluxbox/keys already exists, parse the file to detect a comment line within it specifying “hello, this keys file was generated from the default keys_br-FR template”. If keys files exists, but was created from some other localized template… mv the existing keys file to *.BAK and copy into place a fresh locale-specific keys file. Whoops, this risks confusing the user (keybinds assigned yesterday while I was using suchandsuch kb, they no longer work) and it imposes a burden of requiring the user (or sysadmin of the local system?) to maintain multiple “keys” files if customization is desired.
No matter on which corner or the edge of the round world you live, you must be able to speak English
an observation (shortened version, ranting portion removed):
Within the user interfaces of highly technical domain-specific applications, e.g. blender (and hardware appliances, e.g. A/V production control workstations) we can note that vendor-specified glyphs have already supplanted textual English labels. For applications in general, across platforms, we’re witnessing a language-agnostic, dumbing-down trend (toward a goal of accommodating the minimum viable user).
Well, one might try a discussion on any topic but, some discussions lead nowhere and are pointless.
The simple thing is: no matter which OS, you can’t use it without some shell (zsh, powershell, bash …). Even if you do 99.999 % of the work through the GUI, one or the other time, the cmd will get your best friend. You wanna unhide the hidden files in your macOS? You’ll have to do it over cmd. You need to check integrity of your Windows? No way around cmd. Linux and Solaris? No way around cmd. Every shell works on English.
No matter what you see, your OS is always in English. I have a German localization of Windows and ‘Users’ is called ‘Benutzer’. All of the folders inside ‘Benutzer’ are also shown on German (‘Dokumente’ instead ‘Documents’) but, all REAL destinations are leading to English ones (‘Documents’ instead of ‘Dokumente’, ‘Program Files’ instead of ‘Programme’). Localizations are just symlinks.
The reason is simple: Computer was invented by the scientists, for the scientists and no matter which scientific work, every relevant one was either originally written in English or translated into English. If you can’t get something in English, then it was never written or it’s irrelevant so nobody ever bothered to translate it. Every scientist speaks English either as a first (and only) or as a second language. Besides, computer itself got invented in English speaking world.
The fact that today only money counts and just anybody who wants is allowed to go to a shop and get himself a computer, without having to prove that he / she is able to use it, doesn’t make any difference here. It wasn’t us that the computer was meant to be for. We just got a privilege to use it because of greed.
Thanks to the capitalism, one could say. 😉
cyrilus31
I‘m sure you are right. 😉
That‘s exactly why I could predict: „… it may cause a debate …“ and: „… one might try a discussion on any topic but, some discussions lead nowhere and are pointless.„
I’m sure Anti will love that one.
On whom I was thinking when I wrote it? 😉
In Japan they are quite skilled with computing
I‘m sure that they can make Anime and watch YouTube without cmd. Or eat Sushi.
(„Even if you do 99.999 % of the work through the GUI, one or the other time…)I‘m not sure if they know how to unhinde hidden data on a Mac and if, how do they
enter: defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles YES
Maybe they also get some better Windows then we here and they don‘t need to check it with: sfc /scannow… you can live in France without speaking a single word of English.
Probably there are even a couple of other places too but, they are all learning English, some quicker then the others. Maybe you can watch a movie on French but, you‘ll get English advertisement in between. 😉
„French companies like Renault regularly use English in their marketing campaigns, to make their brand seem more international and trendy.“
Or you can watch a movie on French but, it‘ll have an Englisch title. 😉
„That said, it is not uncommon to change the title of English-language films to simpler English. Interesting examples are The Hangover and No Strings Attached, released in France as Very Bad Trip and Sex Friends respectively.“
Or you have an irrelevant job so, you never enter the office or write a mail.
„In offices or other professional settings, for example, many such words are new concepts in French, like brainstorming or burn-out. They may be left as is since there’s no alternative.“
„Similarly, in the tech field, or l’informatique, English words abound. In an Anglo-Saxon dominated industry, words like email, cloud computing and open-source are adopted so quickly that language authorities barely have time to
https://www.fluentu.com/blog/french/english-words-used-in-french/
https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2012/10/08/langlais-cest-super-cool/
https://www.thelocal.fr/20160316/english-words-invading-french-like-never-beforecyrilus31
@ skidoo
The answer to “Is there any way?” varies. Within the code of some programs, the keybind mappings are hardcoded ~~ for instance the program’s help popup will only ever be displayed if an Alt+H keypress event is detected (regardless of locale-specific strings displayed to any text/labels displayed within the program’s UI).
I see your point. Nevertheless, I was more thinking whether it’s possible or not to have those translations tied to the localization, for instance. Please don’t kill me for my ignorance on the matter, I’m just following the saying that there are no thumb questions. Hopefully the saying is not totally wrong.
Edit: repeated post, contents removed.
- This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by zeh.
- This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by zeh.
- This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by zeh.
keyboard shortcuts — shortcuts — keybinds — hotkeys
.Within your original post, you mentioned Portuguese. If that is your interest, I suggest checking out (boot, test drive) a distro which is Portuguese-centric… and note which (if any) of their installed applications are more fully translated ~~ to the extent that “Ajuta == Alt+A”. I expect you will find very few such examples, even in a Portuguese-centric distribution. Posting to ask in their forums “why not fully translated, including shortcut assignments?” will probably be the best place to ask.
Portugal:
https://www.caixamagica.pt/
https://batocera-linux.xorhub.com/
http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/
Brazil:
https://duzeru.org/
https://www.biglinux.com.br/
http://www.linuxfx.org/As explained by MissTell in post #2, and in my followup post, your premise “changing Alt+H to Alt+A … doesn’t have any effect in the shortcut itself”
is — for many, if not most programs — incorrect.If you (or a distro) chose Gnome desktop environment, and installed ONLY programs which utilize global shortcuts which are redefinable via gconf…
…you could set the default language to your choice, and populate the gconf shortcut assignments to achieve locale-specific, heuristically sensible shortcuts.
Still, within each program, you can expect to discover that some NON-global shortcut assignments cannot be redefined (translated).
Having identified those problematic cases, someone can obtain program source code and change (for instance) the hardcoded Alt+H to Alt+A
…which, of course, begs editing the documentation to match… then recompile / package / distribute the “our special edition” version of the program.Deepin Linux has done what I’ve described, above. Gnome base + “our special edition” (and renamed) versions of individual programs… and custom documentation for each of those programs. After all their effort, are localized shortcuts provided, plus locale-specific documentation to match? (I’m suggesting that it might be enlightening for you to test drive that O/S to find out how thorough / successful they have been in regard to achieving the goal you’ve described.)
There is one more thing to it — interoperability.
Many shortcuts will have the same „meaning“ under most OS, copy, cut & paste, open a new tab in browser … just try to imagine what chaos it would cause changing all those shortcuts from system to system and from language to language. I don’t wanna think how this would look like if I would use three different platforms in 4 languages each. That gives already 12 different shortcuts for only three most basic ones. Now imagine an „hardmode shortcutter“ that knows 50, 100 … multiplied by four for no need whatsoever.
Or just think of the problems in computer support over the phone. Most of the time, the helper will not lead you throughout different menus but, throughout a couple of shortcuts which are not language dependent. It‘s not seldom the case that one hotline person will have own computer on a different language then the person asking for help.
Changing all that because of the laziness or stupidity of an user not beeing able to learn a couple of shortcuts, just to help that stupidity and laziness getting even worse (More sense it makes, less need to learn something)?
Maybe that user should start avoiding PC (== Personal Computer) and start using PA (== Personal Assistant; Alexa, Cortana, Siri … or a RL secretary).
P.S.
@ cyrilus31
Save yourself an us discussions please. What I wrote above, the specialists were investigating and found out and about the laws and educated people … most people are not very well educated, most people are lazy (shorter word is more convenient), most people communicate and do not care where the words are coming from … and laws never prevented any change, well, not longer then „a couple of years“, a certain period of time. It‘s a pointless discussion. French will continue using English even more.cyrilus31
Honestly I don’t care if you think you know so well how it works in France and how French think. … The French people are not prone to defend French language but people from Quebec …
Honestly, I don’t care for your opinion since it’s only your opinion. I gave you three links and you can easily google yourself 300.000 more which will say what I told you — not because I would know it better but, because I am telling you the findings of some serious studies made bay linguists, sociologists … You can discuss with them if you like. By the way, I lived in Montréal, Québec but, that doesn’t change anything on the facts I presented you. Remeber “E pur si muove”? That’s why it doesn’t make any sense to discuss with people like you. 😉
cyrilus31
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
