- This topic has 36 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated Dec 22-6:58 am by zeh.
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Anonymous
End of “discussion”.
Better so.
People who do not want to accept the facts will stay blind beside healthy eyes, no matter how many arguments one offers them.
The hope stays though, they’ll wake up and open their eyes one day. You need it badly. 😉zeh
However, translating ‘Alt+H’ as ‘Alt+A’, for instance, doesn’t have any effect in the shortcut itself, I believe. Am I right?
You are completely wrong (‘Alt+H’ would, for example, mark the complete text on one website).
Is that so?
And what about languages that use non-latin characteres, like Greek, Arabic, Jewish, Slav languages that use Cyrillic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese and all the other Near or Far East languages that do not use the Latin alphabet?
Besides, I happened to be asking in the antix forum regarding the translation of antix apps.Most shortcuts are occupied
Have you ever compared this with this (or the equivalent in an other language)?
and computers are not made for everybody.
Really? missTell knows, missTell says?
You’d have to change all this, plus x-time more from one to another language and it still wouldn’t make any sense on many languages or you’d need the same shortcut more then once.
Have you happened to realize that in that Table several shortcuts vary from one column to the other?
Who can’t speak English should:
1. Learn English
2. Use cheat sheet
3. Stop using computer
(or stop using shortcuts)I know it sounds harsh and it may cause a debate but, that’s how it is, if someone likes it or not.
No matter on which corner or the edge of the round world you live, you must be able to speak English if you are to use a computer for more then open the web browser and go to You Tube. And … if we’re honest, you can’t really watch some local TV program if you can’t speak English — there’s always something on English around, even if you don’t realize it.I can’t be listening to (reading, in the case) Queen Victoria, but the text certainly sounds like Mr Trump or somebody else that feels entitled to rule the world.
You seem to know a lot of things, but you also seem not to know this one.- This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by zeh.
@ skidoo
As per my initial premise, changing the shortcuts/keybindings is not a triviality. I asked to have a confirmation/unconfirmation of the premise and you explained the matter clearly. I thank you for that.Edit: repeated post, contents removed.
- This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by zeh.
Is that so?
And what about languages that use non-latin characteres, like Greek, Arabic, Jewish, Slav languages that use Cyrillic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese and all the other Near or Far East languages that do not use the Latin alphabet?Yes, that is so.
And … all those others have to learn English and will have the same keyboard shortcuts as the rest of the world, as long as they use Latin 105-button keyboard. Don’t look at it as a simple shortcut but, as a universal computer language that belongs to computer usage and makes it easier to use, independent of the language one speaks. No matter which language all those users speak, they will always have an English speaking OS underneath.The users of all those languages will still have to unhinde hidden data on a Mac by entering: defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles YES
If their keyboard can’t type english, they’ll need additional keyboard, not only to learn a shortcut.
Also:
First, don’t mix the application shortcuts with OS shortcuts. OS is always English, applications are not.
Second, don’t mix up technically possible with common sense or, in your case, common nonsense.Technically it wouldn’t be hard to make it. Simply take the Debian code, change the “hardcoded” links and recompile — and you’re done.
From the matter of common sense viewpoint, you’d be producing a chaos because of an lazy idiot who should never be allowed to touch the computer.
(Just how hard it is to learn 10, 20 English words if somebody really thinks he needs them for the shortcuts understanding?)Isn’t it much easier for one person to learn that ‘Alt+H’ == ‘Ajuda’ (–> ‘Alt+A’), or rather ‘Socorro’ (–> ‘Alt+S’), then it would be for one person to learn that ‘Alt+H’ == ‘Alt+A’, or ‘Alt+B’, or ‘Alt+C’, or ‘Alt+E’, or ‘Alt+È’, or ‘Alt+F’, or ‘Alt+G’, or ‘Alt+I’, or ‘Alt+K’, or ‘Alt+L’, or ‘Alt+M’, or ‘Alt+P’, or ‘Alt+N’, ‘Alt+O’,or ‘Alt+R’, or ‘Alt+T’, or ‘Alt+U’, or ‘Alt+Y’, or ‘Alt+V’, or ‘Alt+W’, or …
And, we’re still talking about one single shortcut, not 10 or 20 or more.
It is like it is and it should stay like it is with a good reason. Some people (which could think though) were thinking about such things and that’s why we got: Usability, POLA …
What you would like to do is very much Trump-like — force a common nonsense over the world by introducing a language / keyboard dependent shortcuts.
Computers are not made for everybody but, for those willing (and capable) to learn.
Unfortunately, all the others are also allowed to use them.
Computers are not made for everybody but, for those willing (and capable) to learn.
Unfortunately, all the others are also allowed to use them.
As said, missTell knows, missTell says…
Unfortunately missTell thinks people need either to be interested in the inners of computers or just pretend that computers do not exist or that computers are like crocodiles – just don’t get near to them!
missTell needs to realize that the big majority of people couldn’t care less for the inners of computers, OSes, or apps. They just want/need to use them for entertainment or work, that’s it. For the inners there are software engineers, programmers/developers, systems administrators, webmasters and so on.
Microsoft and Apple have realized that very early. Some people (every day more people) in the Linux world have also realized that, including the antix and MX dev teams, providing systems and apps that just work out of the box. missTell says they’re all wrong. missTell knows, missTell says…missTell needs to realize that the big majority of people couldn’t care less for the inners of computers, OSes, or apps. They just want/need to use them for entertainment or work, that’s it.
I agree on that one and it’s exactly what I’ve said in another thread. There was another Kleiner Klugscheisser like you who didn’t understand that. You both could continue discussion. 😉
Unfortunately missTell thinks people need either to be interested in the inners of computers or just pretend that computers do not exist or that computers are like crocodiles – just don’t get near to them!
What missTell knows is, if you wanna drive the car, you wanna come from the point A to B. Most people don’t care about the product itself, nor do they care about somebodys broken arm. And still, they have to pass the exam and prove that they are able to understand the signalization or help in some accident with their knowledge of first aid. But, in the case of a computer, every idiot will ask to change the rules (shortcuts == signalization) and every incompetent Kleiner Klugscheisser will try to discuss the need of knowing basic English (== first aid). All those stupid and lazy ones are allowed to stay stupid and lazy — because of them, some people make their living with IT support. Stupid should pay. 😉
missTell says they’re all wrong. missTell knows, missTell says…
missTell tells you that you are not able to understand the things you are trying to talk about and that you cannot discuss if you can’t think and have no basic knowledge about the stuff you’re trying to discuss. That makes you just another Kleiner Klugscheisser but, you’re not the only one. Problem is only, that because of such incompetent, egoistic people like you, many other would suffer.
cyrilus31
missTell tells you that you are not able to understand the things you are trying to talk about and that you cannot discuss if you can’t think and have no basic knowledge about the stuff you’re trying to discuss.
As we’ve seen missTell knows and knows and knows…
However, despite being systematically full of herself and of contempt for others, to the point of just start offending, missTell seems not to have understood that I was not trying to talk about anything nor was I trying to discuss. I’ve just made a simple question. And skidoo was kind enough to have thoroughly answered it, in the best spirit of the antix and MX foruns.
Your comments/posts were totally pointless from the beginning. I didn’t ask for anyone’s opinions, and certainly not yours. I just asked whether some way of dealing with a specific matter was feasible. Since you were not trying to help, you could and you should have simply refrained to reply.
If you want to present your opinions to somebody, this is not the place. Find a more appropriate one, start a blog or devise anything else, please.funnysad. I can well relate to MissTell’s unfortunate situation ~~ good intentions but poor conveyance (and/or poor reception, or interpretation) of the post content.
Mmmm, not that I’ve ever typed “you are completely wrong” within a reply (as MissTell typed in a post here), but…you’ll find posts here in the forum from a year ago where cyrilus31 was “taken aback by” or “offended by” or just plain pistabout something posted by skidoo. After repeatedly finding such (sometimes inexplicable) reactions to my well-intended posts, hellwithit, I resigned my forum moderator status & for several months turned my attention elsewhere (gardening, photography, etc.) My motivation for participating here is to share information & to learn, not to argue. I’ve already learned several things (about font management, etc) from MissTell’s posts so, warts and all, I hope s/he will stick around.
caprea
skidoo, I am gratefully always learning from you and I can in no way see what you are comparing with each other here.
Unfortunately I’m not able to learn anything from you, miss tell, because at some point I switched to ignoring your contributions. For various reasons (not remaining with the topic, screaming your opinion again and again in my face, simply bored…….)
Someone said you should be banned, so I read a bit and again I hear from you :”You’re completely wrong…, Kleiner Klugscheisser…, people like you…….”It’s just no joy for me reading this.
That someone would be banned, the sense of it doesn’t suit me.
So I’ll probably stick with avoiding your posts.The stupid thing is, the original posters always have a question they need help with. Unfortunately, the question often gets lost in the whole opinion fantasy. That’s a pity, especially if they are new to antiX
cyrilus31
funnysad. I can well relate to MissTell’s unfortunate situation ~~ good intentions but poor conveyance (and/or poor reception, or interpretation) of the post content.
Mmmm, not that I’ve ever typed “you are completely wrong” within a reply (as MissTell typed in a post here), but…you’ll find posts here in the forum from a year ago where cyrilus31 was “taken aback by” or “offended by” or just plain pistabout something posted by skidoo. After repeatedly finding such (sometimes inexplicable) reactions to my well-intended posts, hellwithit, I resigned my forum moderator status & for several months turned my attention elsewhere (gardening, photography, etc.) My motivation for participating here is to share information & to learn, not to argue. I’ve already learned several things (about font management, etc) from MissTell’s posts so, warts and all, I hope s/he will stick around.
Honestly I was thinking of you Skidoo. Same behaviour some times ago. Unquestionably highly qualified, I don’t even know the tenth of what you know, but damn, there are ways to explain things to people. In my opinion you changed a lot.
Anyway I said should be, not must be banned. Seems I’m totally useless so I will not post anymore. Good luck to all of you.
cyrilus31, I would also miss your “warts and all” presence. I presumed it would be a “safe” (and fair) example, mentioning our year ago hiccup.
@caprea
… not remaining with the topic …
That’s truth and — not — at the same time.
You need to read those treads complete to be able to see why that’s so.
Like … one starts a keyboard thread and get’s the answer one doesn’t like. Afterwards someone shifts the topic from the keyboard to language expressions (for example) and gets an answer on it which it doesn’t like. Since that someone is not able to continue the original discussion, neither is able to continue the “shifted topic” discussion, there comes another change of the topic or it all shifts “to the point of just start offending” with something like “… and knows and knows and knows …”. If you can do some “contextual reading”, than it’s very obvious to which two categories that “knowing” belongs. (Hint: one category for attacked one, one for the attacker itself.)
So, as you see, it’s relative who’s (not) remaining at the topic.
@zeh
Since you were not trying to help …
I very well tried to help and the simplest solution was:
Who can’t speak English should:
1. Learn English
2. Use cheat sheet
…Why I wrote what I wrote, anybody could find out in a couple of seconds and a little bit of thinking about the complexity of a topic.
Bing, Translator, Google Translator, Yandex Translator and a word ‘Ajuda’ (or ‘Socorro’?) would show you where it leads.‘Alt+H’ == ‘Ajuda’ (–> ‘Alt+A’), or rather ‘Socorro’ (–> ‘Alt+S’) … ‘Alt+H’ == ‘Alt+A’, or ‘Alt+B’, or ‘Alt+C’, or ‘Alt+E’, or ‘Alt+È’, or ‘Alt+F’, or ‘Alt+G’, or ‘Alt+I’, or ‘Alt+K’, or ‘Alt+L’, or ‘Alt+M’, or ‘Alt+P’, or ‘Alt+N’, ‘Alt+O’,or ‘Alt+R’, or ‘Alt+T’, or ‘Alt+U’, or ‘Alt+Y’, or ‘Alt+V’, or ‘Alt+W’, or …
Repeating yourself all over again, will also not change the facts.
As we’ve seen missTell knows and knows and knows … to the point of just start offending …
The life is not fair. Some people easily understand some things and others try and try, try hard but, still can’t understand the whole context.
Not knowing is not a problem, the problem is not knowing but, not realizing that one doesn’t know, or even thinks, one knows something.The simple “secret” behind “knowing better most of the time”:
1. Discuss only the topics you understand (== avoid discussion on things you don’t understand)
2. Try thinking in big pictures, never based on your own preferences
(… and use the knowledge and experience of others)Unfortunate for some, one can’t buy the intelligence but, Google might still help to understand better.
One example for those who can’t follow:
Let’s suppose, my favorite color would be green.
On a question: “What should be the color of new antiX 21 background?”, my answer would be “Blue” and I WOULD KNOW BETTER, no matter what color it gets at the end.
Why?
Google for “psychological impact of colors” or look the favorite color for most people … most people, men and woman, are having blue as a favorite color.
No need to say, if you have a product which should satisfy most of it’s users, you give them what most of them wants.
That’s called “thinking in big pictures”.
fungalnet
Favorite color and most comfortable background are different things, and what is most popular by no means does it indicate a quality of being best or right. It is a choice. Sometimes psychological some times physiological. I’d never pick green or blue as my favorite colors, but the only BG I can tolerate for long is a hazy dark blue-green. I’d never paint my bike in such a color.
Two people may speak, read/write, the same language very well but may be coming from different backgrounds, culturally I mean, and they misunderstand each other, and end up in conflict because the way each uses this language is different. I had my run ins here with someone who used language that we both fully understand but was offensive. Computers only understand one language, with only two characters in it (0/I). What is on top of it only helps programmers. Keyboards also don’t understand language, only 0/I. By the time we get to read an english word in console there have been many layers of “translation” with something that is very logical but doesn’t understand english, it tries. The reverse with commands. English is just the established widely accepted common ground among developers, some of which have very poor skills in this language but end up collaborating and producing wonderful code.Having said all this, I get in a hell of a lot more fierce arguments in my native language than I do in English. It may be because I have lost the cultural connection with that language and I have grown intolerant of its use.
Now back to keyboard shortcuts, what drives me nuts is when I install a system with weird shortcuts, although well documented what they are, I can’t figure out where the definitions are hiding so I can alter them to what I like. There seem to be many places where those can hide. What are these fools thinking when they make them, that for using their system we are going to change out “settled” ways? How dare they, and what is so hard about stating that “to edit shortcuts go to /etc/X11/kbdshcuts.70”. And what about console shortcuts that interfere with terminal shortcuts?
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