antiX Translator Channel Online

[Member Robin]

Everybody who is interessted is invited to drop in.
Finally I have managed to re-activate an IRC channel I had set up some months ago already, but never had the time to make it available to our translators.
It is meant as a room for discussion, help and whatever is needed. Originally I had planned to have it password protected to avoid getting flooded by spam, but for now we can live without this. (If spam will become a problem once, we’ll switch to additional password protection, you will find the password at transifex antiX-contribs/antiX-development announcements in this case.)

Originally the channel was set up at freenode, but this network ceased to exist obviously, most of the big players like wikimedia/wikipedia, Fedora, Ubuntu, Gentoo, the Free Software Foundation (fsf) have moved to liberachat, so this is a good choice I believe.

Network:
irc.libera.chat/+6697
Channel:
#antiX-translators

Step by step, for people who have never seen IRC before:

1.) Open Hexchat IRC-Client from antiX menu.
2.) Enter a nickname of your choice.
3.) From the Network list chose “LiberaChat” (If not present, add this network and enter in its settings irc.libera.chat/+6697 ).
-.) Connect.
4.) Register your personal Nickname: (invent your personal password, but make sure it is a strong one)
/msg NickServ REGISTER ‹personal-password› ‹email-address›
6.) Wait for the registration email, containing a token. The token is the line with cryptic letters and chiphers from the email. In Hexchat Enter
/msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER ‹nickname› ‹token›
7.) Secure your nickname so nobody else can hijack it.
/msg nickserv set enforce on

It is a good idea to set the login-method in the settings of LiberaChat network (within Hexchat) to »sasl+password«, along with your personal password. Make sure the encoding is set to utf-8. So you won’t have to reenter your password every time when connecting to the network.

8.) Join Channel. Simply enter
/j #antiX-translators

You have to be registered at network level as described above to join the channel.
That’s all for people speaking English language. Just start to jabber right away.

As a foreign language user you’ll have to perform one additional step in case you want to participate in the conversation in your native language. I have written a translation script for HexChat, allowing comfortably to read and write in your home language. It comes with an additional encryption feature for 1:1 dialogs, which is meant as kind of letter envelope for internet transfer. No high security encryption used here.

1.) Install translate-shell:

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install translate-shell

Make sure you have got at least version 0.9.6.11-1~bpo10+1 or above.

2.) Download enc.py from gitlab repo:
Hexchat Encrypt Translate Ver. 2.0.6
copy this file to the folder
~/.config/hexchat/addons
(create the “addons” folder if not present. Start or restart Hexchat program. You should see now the following message in green colour:

Hexchat-Encrypt-Translate Ver.2.0.6
Encryption enabled by default in private dialogs.
Translation enabled globaly by default.
Use „/enc” or „/tra” to obtain information about how to disable.

From now on all English text in channels in HexChat will get translated to the language your antiX user interface is set to, and everything what you type in the channel will be translated from your home language to English before it is transferred to the channel. So you can participate without noticible delay. Use /enc or /tra to find out how to configure it according to your needs.

Privacy Note: Even if the channel is secured by password, consider everything written in there to be public. It is all transfered as plaintext via internet, and in case of translation also sent to the translation service provider (Google in the default setting of translate-shell).

If you want to have a snailmail envelop-like level of privacy for untranslated texts, just enable the encryption option this plugin provides in your private 1:1 conversations. It uses simple symmetric openssl encryption.

Hint for translators: There is a new resource present for this Hexchat Encrypt Translate tool at transifex antiX-contribs, waiting for translation.

Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

[Member Wallon]

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Dear Robin,

Regarding strings 38, 39, 40 at Transifex, the word in English “incomming” is used. Isn’t it a mistake? I thing that’s “incoming”.

Regarding the word “Globally” which is often used, it means “the whole world” I guess.

In French, there can be 2 meanings;
1) The word “Globalement”,
2) The word “Mondialement” or the expression “le monde entier”

This English word is one of the false friends with French words.

Best regards,
Wallon

[Member marcelocripe]

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Hello Robin and Wallon,

Robin, thank you very much for another excellent work. As soon as it is possible, I will apply your tutorial.

Wallon, as I do not understand anything of the English language, I keep testing in several different translators. The Google translator made an observation in the phrase “Translation enabled for incomming messages only (globally)”, specifically in the word ‘incomming’, the translator suggests ‘incoming’ with only one letter ‘m’.

If it is “Translation enabled for incomming messages only (globally)”, I get “A tradução foi ativada apenas para as mensagens recebidas (globalmente)” (this text has already been adapted by me).

If it is “Translation enabled for incoming messages only (globally)”, I get “A tradução foi ativada apenas para as mensagens de entrada (globalmente)” (this text has already been adapted by me).

Does the sentence refer to the inbox by any chance? If so, I can adapt it to “A tradução foi ativada apenas para as mensagens da caixa de entrada (globalmente)” (this text has already been adapted by me).

In sentences similar to “The new key for conversation with” that will be followed by a name or in sentences similar to “Can’t create a new key. Possibly the” which will be followed by a command, is a space already provided after the last word, or is it necessary to include a space after the last word of the translation?

As I do not understand anything of the English language, it is better to ask those who know.

Many greetings.

marcelocripe
(Original text in Brazilian Portuguese language)

– – – – –

Olá Robin e Wallon,

Robin, muito obrigado por mais este excelente trabalho. Assim que for possível, eu vou aplicar o seu tutorial.

Wallon, como eu não compreendo nada do idioma Inglês, eu fico testando em vários tradutores diferentes. O tradutor do Google fez uma observação na frase “Translation enabled for incomming messages only (globally)”, especificamente na palavra ‘incomming’, o tradutor sugere ‘incoming’ com apenas uma letra ‘m’.

Se for “Translation enabled for incomming messages only (globally)”, eu recebo “A tradução foi ativada apenas para as mensagens recebidas (globalmente)” (este texto já foi adaptado por mim).

Se for “Translation enabled for incoming messages only (globally)”, eu recebo “A tradução foi ativada apenas para as mensagens de entrada (globalmente)” (este texto já foi adaptado por mim).

Por acaso a frase refere-se a caixa de entrada? Se for isso, eu posso adaptar para “A tradução foi ativada apenas para as mensagens da caixa de entrada (globalmente)” (este texto já foi adaptado por mim).

Nas frases semelhantes a “The new key for conversation with” que serão seguidas por um nome ou nas frases semelhantes “Can’t create a new key. Possibly the” que serão seguidas por um comando, após a última palavra já está previsto um espaço, ou é necessário incluir um espaço após a última palavra da tradução?

Como eu não entendo nada do idioma Inglês, é melhor perguntar para quem sabe.

Muitas saudações.

marcelocripe
(Texto original em idioma Português do Brasil)

[Member Robin]

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@Wallon : Yes, you are right. it is »incoming«, not »incomming«. I was mislead by the German equivalent »ankommend«, which is spelled with double „m”. I should have checked spelling of the phrases one by one before uploading, but no problem, we can simply correct it in the en translation at transifex. Many thanks for your hint. As you know, I’m not a native speaker in English language, so mistakes like that happen quite regularly to me, and I notice them when rereading the text later only, making it necessary to correct more than once. Also within a script it is even more difficult to spell check the strings in between all the commands.

»globally« is used here in the sense of the German expression „allgemein“, „gesamt“, „pauschal”, „umfassend” meaning the command is not working per channel or dialog (like the encryption commands), but for all dialogs and channels at once. If LEO is correct in its translations, you may use global also in french, but simply use what you feel to suit best.

@marcelocripe :
The sentence “A tradução foi ativada apenas para as mensagens recebidas (globalmente)” and the sentence “A tradução foi ativada apenas para as mensagens de entrada (globalmente)” seem to be fine both. The third variant has a wrong meaning, Hexchat doesn’t have an inbox. It’s not email. The incoming messages refer to all text received from a channel or within a private dialog. (same goes for “outgoing”)

Best regards
Robin

Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

[Member marcelocripe]

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Robin,

Thank you very much for all your explanations and guidance in this topic and also through the private message.

I take this opportunity to register my gratitude for all your work and commitment to creating ways for people who do not speak the same language to communicate quickly through instant messaging using machine translations.

Thanks to your many comments, I managed to translate (with the help of machine translations) the 146 texts in hours of work. When there are no comments, I spend several days or weeks trying to guess what can or cannot be translated and whether or not the translated text will fit in the available space.

My sincere thanks.

marcelocripe
(Original text in Brazilian Portuguese language)

– – – – –

Robin,

Muito obrigado por todas as suas explicações e orientações neste tópico e também através da mensagem particular.

Eu aproveito para registrar a minha gratidão por todo o seu trabalho e empenho em criar meios para as pessoas que não falam o mesmo idioma de se comunicarem de forma rápida através da mensagens instantâneas com o uso das traduções automáticas.

Graças aos seus diversos comentários, eu consegui realizar a tradução (com o auxílio das traduções automáticas) dos 146 textos em horas de trabalho. Quando não exitem os comentários, eu levo vários dias ou semanas tentado adivinhar o que pode ou não pode ser traduzido e se o texto traduzido caberá ou não no espaço disponível.

Meus sinceros agradecimentos.

marcelocripe
(Texto original em idioma Português do Brasil)

[Member Wallon]

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Dear Robin,

marcelocripe wrote:

In sentences similar to “The new key for conversation with” that will be followed by a name or in sentences similar to “Can’t create a new key. Possibly the” which will be followed by a command, is a space already provided after the last word, or is it necessary to include a space after the last word of the translation?

marcelocripe

If you have divided a sentence into three parts, do you foresee spaces or do we have to add them in the translations?

Example at Transifex;
string 20; No Key for(no space)
string 21; (no space)found. Try(no space)
string 22; (no space)to get a survey of all keys stored.

translation;
string 20; BLA BLA BLA(add space)
string 21; (add space)BLA BLA BLA(add space)
string 22; (add space)BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA.

Thank you also for the word “Globally”, I need to change my translation.

Best regards,
Wallon

[Member Wallon]

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Dear Robin,

At Transifex, string 46; “Additional sending of original messgetext was already enabled”

“messgetext” is a “memory variable” or a mistake in English ?

Best regards,
Wallon

[Member marcelocripe]

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If you have divided a sentence into three parts, do you foresee spaces or do we have to add them in the translations?

Dear Wallon, Robin explained to me in the private message that it is not necessary to add the space at the end of the last word, as he has already predicted the space in the programming code.

– – – – –

Caro Wallon, o Robin me explicou na mensagem particular que não é preciso adicionar o espaço no final da última palavra, pois ele já preveu o espaço no código de programação.

[Member Robin]

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Wallon wrote:

If you have divided a sentence into three parts, do you foresee spaces or do we have to add them in the translations?

Marcelo is right. No need to add spaces, where there are none. This time I have cut all the message strings in a way I presumed it would make things easy for us translators. Here an example how it looks in source code:

ctxt.prnt(textNeg(_("Encryption impossible.") + "\n" + _("No key found for") + " \002"
	+ str(target) + "\017. " + _("Please exchange keys and use") + " »/enc key« "
	+ _("commands before starting encryption.") + "\n\002"
	+ _("Until then all messages in this private dialog will be transferred as plain text via internet.")))

As you can see, all the blanks, all the newlines, formatting instructions and all the commands needed are separated from translatable text within the script already. This makes translation easy, BUT… yes, there has to be a big but in the sentence. While retranslating the strings back to German for testing the functionality of the gettext entries in the script, I noticed this way it is quite impossible any longer, to make a translation sound naturally in German language, and I suppose this goes the same in other languages. The reason for this is the imposed English sentence structure and word order we see now, which could only get corrected by translators according to the respective needs of a foreign language if the whole sentence is present for translation. As you might have guessed, this would cause to include all the untranslatable parts into the transifex set of strings (meaning, into the language template file or short: into .pot file). In the example above it would render an entry looking like this:

Encryption impossible.\nNo key found for \002%s\017. Please exchange keys and use »/enc key« commands before starting encryption.\n\002Until then all messages in this private dialog will be transferred as plain text via internet.

This way it would be possible for translators to rearrange the unfit English sentence structure, at cost of a way more difficult task of translation, meaning he has to identify and separate all the untranslatable parts himself. How difficult this can be sometimes we have experienced form other translation sets before.

But the approach I’ve chosen here is no good either, as said before, since it makes the translations sound really unnatural, straight as if the translator was a native English speaker trying to express himself in a foreign language…

I don’t see a real solution for this problem by now, since the formating instructions are needed within the strings, and cutting them out for translation breaks any sentence up into some parts, not allowing to change sentence structure anymore.

To put it in a nutshell, there are no variables or formatting instructions to be cared for this time, no double and no multiple blanks. Everything is handled within the script. With one important exception. If you need to have an additional line in strings marked as »command descriptions of help message«, you’ll have to add not simply an Enter or \n in transifex, but the string

“\n                          ”

instead, ( \n followed by 26 blanks ), in order to make the additional followup line fit into the correct column. Whether or not a newline is needed you’ll see only when starting the translated version of Hexchat-Encrypt-Translate the first time. Strings marked differently are not to get this special format on additional line breaks, depending if they have to meet a column or not. But be careful here also, you will have to copy any formatting instructions if present (eg. for red colour, bold letters, italics…) from the first line as found within the script to every new line. It would fill a book trying to explain all these details in the developers notes, and most time there is no need to apply them, as long as the translated lines fit. So it might be way easier to ask if you notice on first run in your language some line breaks in unfortunate position, making the output looking odd. Then I’ll help to fix this issue or give advice how it can be treated.

string 46: “messgetext” should read “messagetext”, it’s simply a typo. Many thanks for noticing it, I’ll add the fix to the »en« translations.

So long
Robin

Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

[Member Wallon]

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Dear Robin,

Thank you for the explanations.

I had guessed that the English sentence structure did not work well for French translations.
When you split a sentence in English into 2 parts, a part of sentence 2 in English can be found in sentence 1 in French and you have to introduce a command at a different place in the French sentence.

Sometimes words in English are false friends. I looked at the German translations to help me translate the text into French.

For example:
“swallow” = In French, it means to eat, swallow, gobble. This is a bad translation.
“print” = In French, to make a print on a printer. This is a bad translation.

I am very grateful to the German translator for finding the best terms in French. I know him, he is very nice.

With kind regards,
Wallon

[Member Robin]

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Important addition to installation instructions:

Due to a change in packaging of Hexchat an additional package is to be installed before you can run HexChat-Encrypt-Translate:

„This package contains the Python 2 plugin for HexChat. Previously included in
the main HexChat package, it’s now separate as it’s not actually required for
core functionality.“

So we’ll have to install it now manually:

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install hexchat-python2

And here’s the updated complete list of what is needed:

– hexchat (*)
– openssl (**)
– pwgen
– translate-shell (***)
– hexchat-python2

– enc.py
– enc.py.mo (****)

* (2.14.2, compatibility to older and newer versions is untested by now.)
*** (Best to use the more recent version 0.9.6.11-1~bpo10+1 from “backports”, since the default version 0.9.6.9 seems to have problems to connect to the translation service providers sometimes)
** (tested with default version 1.1.1d. More recent versions might also work)
**** (You need to download only the respective file for your language. English language users also might want to have this file for »en«, since it contains some error corrections.)
You will find all compiled .mo type language files ready for use by now in subdirectories of the locale directory at gitlab.

Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

[Member marcelocripe]

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Dear Wallon,

I was tricked by the internet translator with the word “swallow”. The text I built in pt-BR was very different from your text and from Robin’s text, even my text informed the opposite of your text. I changed the pt-BR text following your texts. I also changed the text of the translation where the original has the “print”.

Thanks.

– – – – –

Caro Wallon,

Eu fui enganado pelo tradutor da internet com a palavra “swallow”. O texto que eu construí em pt-BR estava muito diferente do seu texto e do texto do Robin, inclusive o meu texto informava ao contrário do texto de vocês. Eu alterei o texto pt-BR seguindo os seus textos. Alterei também o texto da tradução onde no original tem o “print”.

Obrigado.

[Member Wallon]

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Dear Marcelocripe,

This project is not easy to understand because I have never used this system and there are many English words that are “misleading” for translators.
I am sure that I have not yet understood everything and that the translations may still need to be changed.

Dear Robin,

Regarding the string 142 at Transifex “This will breake privacy…”, there is no “e” at the end of the word “break”.

See you soon.

Wallon

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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Does anyone refer to this tool?

https://github.com/ssut/py-googletrans

--
Brian Masinick

[Member marcelocripe]

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Does anyone refer to this tool?

https://github.com/ssut/py-googletrans

Mr Brian, Robin is referring to the program he developed Hexchat Encrypt Translate Ver. 2.0.6.

This program allows me to write in Brazilian Portuguese language and you will receive my text translated to your language instantly on HexChat. And when you type in your language I get the text translated into my language.

With this important tool provided by Robin, we can chat via text messages via HexChat chat.

At Transifex we have some ready-made translations of the program that allows the user get the translated texts of how to use the program created by Robin. What is lacking is English-speaking proofreading of the texts of all Transifex contribs programs.

I hope Wallon and you can join the “antiX-translators” channel.

– – – – –

Senhor Brian, o Robin está se referindo ao programa que ele desenvolveu Hexchat Encrypt Translate Ver. 2.0.6.

Este programa permite que eu escreva em idioma Português do Brasil e o senhor receba o meu texto traduzido para o seu idioma instantaneamente no HexChat. E quando o senhor digitar em seu idioma eu recebo o texto traduzido para o meu idioma.

Com esta importante ferramenta disponibilizada pelo Robin, nós podemos conversar por mensagens de textos através do bate-papo do HexChat.

No Transifex nós temos algumas traduções prontas do programa que permite o usuário obter os textos traduzidos de como utilizar o programa do criado pelo Robin. O que falta é a revisão por nativos do idioma Inglês dos textos de todos os programas do Transifex contribs.

Eu espero que o Wallon e o senhor possam participar do canal do “antiX-translators”.

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