Trying to Add IceWM to antiX-19.3 CORE – Stuck

[Forum Admin Dave]

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I am probably a bit late here. The menu scripts are packaged as part of the desktop-session-antix package. For me it is good that you are trying to set this up by copying over the different items to see how they work. I have been hoping to have the menu scripts separate from desktop-session-antix… maybe desktop-menu-antix. You should be able to find them in gitlab
https://gitlab.com/antiX-Linux/desktop-session-antix
but it appears this is not visible to the public (maybe it is and I am seeing it wrong).
Here is the mirrored / forked version in my repo which should the same/similar.
https://gitlab.com/antiX-Dave/desktop-session-antix
The items in the desktop-menu directory should be what is needed for the menu generation.

I think the only things that are missing from the desktop-menu directory (as it is included in the desktop-defaults-WINDOWMANAGER packages IIRC) are the main menu files and the symlinks from ~/.WINDOW_MANAGER/menu-applications -> /usr/share/desktop-menu/.WINDOW_MANAGER/menu-applications.

If there are any issues perhaps we can correct/curate them so the scripts will work independently from the rest of the ecosystem. That would make it easier to use in custom installs (As in just install the menu package)

Edit:
This may or may not work with buster as it is the updated version for the next stable release (currently testing). It will need the xdg-utils, python3-xdg and python3-gi (IIRC, should be the python3 / Gtk3 version… pygtk3?)

• This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Dave.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Dave.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Dave.

Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

[Moderator BobC]

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Sounds like an adventure 🙂

I’ve done setups of IceWM on a lot of distros, but antiX already had it. Yes, I like the startx way, too. Super lean from a memory standpoint. And you could have it run that at login or maybe optionally via a dialog box question.

I’ve done the menus generated a number of different ways. There is the new IceWM program someone mentioned above. There are also multiple menu builders that work off the application .desktop files that have the option of generating an IceWM format menu. antiX is unique because it’s menu builder also generates menus for Fluxbox and JWM as well.

I think the basic idea is to create your main menu by hand, and then generate another menu or menus that branch off from it which are then called by the main menu. I think good clues for antiX’s way of building a menu will be found in desktop-menu

PS: I was typing while Dave posted above. He is the one that knows for sure.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by BobC.

[Forum Admin Dave]

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BobC wrote:

I think the basic idea is to create your main menu by hand, and then generate another menu or menus that branch off from it which are then called by the main menu. I think good clues for antiX’s way of building a menu will be found in desktop-menu

Correct.
The applications menu can be edited by adding/editing/removing .desktop files. It should not manually be edited otherwise it will get overwritten when applications are added/removed. You can remove the symlink and generate a menu file, then alter that file. It will not automatically update after that. Instead it is up to the user (who customized the menu) to make a backup, generate an updated menu, then copy back the customization.

Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

[Anonymous]

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gitlab.com/antiX-Linux/desktop-session-antix
appears this is not visible to the public

confirmed.
While logged in, you or anticapitalista just need to navigate “Settings” in the left pane, then tick “Public” and “Save”.

Their policy now is such that each time you create a new project repo, it defaults to “Private”.
This project repo may have not been explicitly marked Public prior to the gitlab policy change, so wound up flagged as Private.

[Member seaken64]

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anticapitalista wrote:

Any user starting from net or core wanting to login via startx, you MUST install xserver-xorg-legacy AND edit the /etc/X11/Xwrapper file to include these lines:

allowed_users = console
needs_root_rights = yes

anti, I installed xserver-xorg-legacy. I found a file named /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config. This is different than your instructions above. I added the line needs_root_rights=yes. The other command was already there.

But I haven’t seen a difference in using startx and my logout menu is still not working right. I copied the preferences and menu files from /etc/skel and that did change the menu and now the Logout button pops up the familiar 6 panel logout menu. Logout does nothing. Reboot and Shutdown work. Restart works.

Any ideas?

Seaken64

[Member seaken64]

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@Dave, @BobC, thank you both.

I think I figured that out today. I already had the desktop-session-antix and desktop-defaults-icewm-antix and menu-icewm-antix installed. And I found the menu-applications file in /usr/share/desktop-menu/.icewm/menu-applications. I could see that cli-aptiX and apt were updating the IceWM menu. I just didn’t understand that I had to take action to manually modify the main menu file to link to the applications.

Later I found out that I could copy over the antiX menu and preferences from /etc/skel. When I did that I got the antiX menu complete with the Applications and Personal, etc. So, now I know what I didn’t know. I still have lot’s of work to do to clean up the main menu and the Control Centre. I still have to install several programs also.

My last question for this thread is how I can get the Logout menu to work correctly. I’m closer than when I started but it’s still not right.

Thanks
Seaken64

[Forum Admin Dave]

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I think this is likely because you are running via startx / ~/.xinitrc rather than through desktop-session (so the desktop-session command would not work). Will have to look into it to see if this can be made possible. That way the exit dialog can be independent of desktop-session if desktop-session is not running (no pid recorded in ~/.desktop-session). Seeing how you have desktop-session installed: If you run startx like
startx /usr/local/bin/desktop-session icewm
Does the session start?
Does the logout button work?

Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

[Member seaken64]

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@Dave,

I tried that command. It did not work to start IceWM. Instead it left me with the same console screen I had been seeing before after clicking on the Logout button at the bottom of the default main menu. The text is obscured, like being behind a screen. It is very light and unreadable. The “clear” command cleans it up.

I no longer have that default menu since I copied over the antiX menu file from /etc/skel. On the antiX Logout menu when I click on the main menu Logout button it opens the 6 panel logout screen. When I click on Logout nothing happens. I noticed the command in the Preferences menu is desktop-session-exit. So that is not working. But IceWM does have an option for a Shutdown script. Could I make that work? Or maybe just change the command in the Preferences file to something supported in this system with no DM?

Thanks
Seaken64

[Member seaken64]

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I made a temporary fix for the Logout. I changed the command in the Preferences file to “pkill icewm”. This returns me to the default main menu entry instead of having the 6 panel logout screen come up. When I click on Logout it exits IceWM and leaves me at the console (with the weird VERY light foggy text where I can use clear to set if back to normal). I can then enter sudo reboot if I want to.

This is better than getting nothing from the desktop-session-exit panel. With that panel I cannot Logout, only reboot or shutdown. So my solution at least allows me to logout.

I will keep looking for a solution. I would like to keep the antiX six panel exit menu. I just need to figure out how to activate the Logout selection.

Anyone know how to run a logout command from that desktop-session-exit panel? I’d like to stay with startx instead of Slim.

Seaken64

[Anonymous]

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> I’d like to stay with startx instead of SLiM

In a contemporary desktop linux setting… the absence of a PAM session is gonna leave ya wanting.

If not SLiM, consider at least using “nodm” (130kb package).
Here’s the nodm README page: https://sources.debian.org/src/nodm/0.13-5/README.md/

[Anonymous]

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> Anyone know how to run a logout command from that desktop-session-exit a panel?

manyroads has shared a yad logout chooser script
on his blog,
and here on the forum
and, searching now, I even found it mentioned on reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/bspwm/comments/cx86qq/yad_logout_script/

that desktop-session-exit panel

if you didn’t login via (antiX)desktop-session…
it ain’t gonna do nuffin when you attempt to log out from a non-existent (antiX)desktop-session session

( okay, saying “nuffin” is a bit of an exaggeration. Its “Cancel” button should still work, at least. )

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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I agree with skidoo that including at least a small login manager is a more useful choice than using only startx.

On one hand, you can insert a startx command into your login script and even conditionally code for whether or not a graphical user environment is present, but then you have to maintain that code and modify it if anything changes in the future. The memory footprint savings is not that significant, though there may be a small savings.

On the other hand, if you use slim or another login manager, you can select any different window manager, should you decide to include one, or someone else using your setup wants to experiment, it is a more familiar, flexible way. There are multiple desktop managers available, and simply using the current desktop will minimize coding changes if done right. If you have to code anything at all that points to a window or desktop, make sure to use either variables or parameters to simplify any changes, whether anticipated or not.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Brian Masinick. Reason: login manager

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Brian Masinick

[Anonymous]

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Unfortunately, we’re subjected to loosely-defined terminology and overlapping functionality of the various system components.

desktop manager
display manager
login manager
session manager

That first phrase, above, is not in my vocabulary.
The second and third, a reader’s takeaway after visiting archwiki and wikipedia would probably be
“oh, they’re essentially different names to describe the same thing”.

One would probably benefit from taking a step back and first defining (clarifying, deciding, understanding):
What is a “desktop session” ?

“Session management”
There’s an actual formal spec, a protocol, for use between applications {–} window manager {–} display manager
and across decades the spec has never been firmly abided by the disparate developers of the various components involved… so the status quo of “session management” has essentially remained an unfulfilled promise.

SLiM
Simple Login Manager
.
It serves to associate a user with a seat (I/O hardware: graphics card + display, keyboard, mouse).
It launches a (the) xserver process if such is not already running
and employs a PluggableAuthenticationModule to register with xserver a “login session” (useraccount+seat)
and writes a proof of registration “ticket stub” file into the user’s home directory.
It then hands off control to whatever program is specified in the /etc/slim.conf “login_cmd” line
and remains idle until that specified “whatever” program exits.

Although Debian’s one-liner description for the SLiM package is “desktop-independent graphical login manager for X11“, throughout Debian documentation the role of components like SLiM… the role is often termed “display manager”. If you click that “description” hyperlink, note the confusing mishmash of purported “Similar packages” listed in the righthand column of the page. “wm2” is (is only) a window manager; lxde-common isn’t even a program, it doesn’t install any executable files…

lxsession, xfce4-session, et al
Various individually-packaged “session manager” components are available to anyone who cares to buildup a piecemeal custom system… but (again) I would point out “the cake is a lie, their functionality ultimately yields an unfulfilled promise.

It would be more correct, and perhaps less confusing, if the antiX login screen for SLiM stated
“F1 to choose a session type“

[Member manyroads]

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I think you may be able to generate a viable logout, suspend, exit, script using yad without slim or another DM ‘in play’. Try using pm-util commands see:

https://linux.die.net/man/8/pm-suspend

No guarantees are expressed or implied….

Pax vobiscum,
Mark Rabideau - http://many-roads.com
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
dwm & i3wm ~Reg. Linux User #449130
20 Jan 2021 ~ "End of an Error"

[Anonymous]

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…and no espressos are guaranteed nor imbibed?

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