- This topic has 28 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated May 23-3:35 pm by stevesr0.
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olsztyn
Although I would like antiX to be not only systemd-free but also 100% elogind-free too (that is/will be how the iso files are/will be shipped)
As about two months ago, when I first performed tests after purging elogind* and libelogind* and installed seatd, I did not experienced issues after doing this. Fact is I am not using VLC or Tor, but as I understand VLC would still work properly, only after installing a new version might be introducing libelogind stuff.
Now, when this transition to antiX without libelogind* became reality I have performed such conversion on my system and noticed the following:
– At first testing purge with ‘sudo apt –simulate purge libelogind0’ it came back with bunch of stuff to be removed and among that list was slimski*! I would not to lose such precious piece, but continued testing such scenario…
– Installed seatd.
– Now installed libseat1. Now, to my surprise this installation removed all libelogind* stuff. No slimski* was removed.
– Redone simulating ‘purge’ was clean. No libelogind* or elogind* left in the system. Confirmed by Synaptic.I am typing this from system that has no elogind* or libelogind* remnants and memory footprint appears to be slightly lower (very small gain though).
Tested everything important that I am using and works fine. No adverse impact noticed. I did not test VLC as I do not have such installed but I understand that it should work too.
I actually like this change and I think this is the right next step towards clean architecture. Since everything I use appears to work fine I will stick to this.
However if our antiX experts identify any adverse impact please let us know…As it is now I think this is a good move. Congrats to anticapitalista on such dexterous decision…
Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parametersre – vlc on antiX-19
It will install without being repackaged if user also installs seatd and libseat1 before installing vlc.Update:
Running now *elogind* free I just simulated install of VLC and verified whether this would re-introduce elogind0 or libelogind0 in result.
It looks to me none of this was re-introduced in result.
Possibly the above is already in force and *elogind* free system will hold up as such…Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters
anticapitalista
Update:
Running now *elogind* free I just simulated install of VLC and verified whether this would re-introduce elogind0 or libelogind0 in result.
It looks to me none of this was re-introduced in result.
Possibly the above is already in force and *elogind* free system will hold up as such…Should be working ok now as long as both seatd and libseat1 are installed (for antiX-19, antiX-21 and testing/sid versions).
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
stevesr0
Hi anticapitalista,
If I run update and full-upgrade on a 19.4 system and a 19.x-based SID system that do have elogind installed, will it be maintained unless I remove it and install seat and consolekit?
Or will these systems be “automagically” transformed (at some point) to be free of elogind (and associated files)?
stevesr0
anticapitalista
antiX will not auto-replace elogind with consolekit/seatd.
Users can keep elogind or replace it if they want.Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
As I understand many packages have been cured by anticapitalista to not require *elogind* for their installation and operation.
So currently running antiX 21 runit completely *elogind* free, in true spirit of systemd-free system, my questions (and possible concerns) would be:– Many these packages cured for be antiX specific versions located in antiX repo will likely require on-going cure maintenance whenever new versions appear in Debian repos. Does this dependency on such additional maintenance requirement not imply antiX versions not being the latest.
– Any attempt to install most current versions of software directly from Debian repos will result in *elogind* stuff to be re-installed in spite of seatd being in control.
Not necessarily specific for *elogind* example of what seems to be already: I noticed that many multimedia programs, such as SMPlayer, SMTube and MPV in debian multimedia repo are more current versions than in antiX. These are not *libelogind* dependent but just quoting these as an analogy what might be with the cured packages…
So as much as I am all for the pure system clean of any garbage and unnecessary dependencies, is *elogind*-free strategy not entailing more trouble than it is worth?Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parametersanticapitalista
Since antiX is based on Debian stable, and Debian stable only updates packages for ‘serious’ bug fixes and security, our antiX builds should rarely get overwritten by upstream Debian.
For testing/sid, probably the opposite is the case.I wouldn’t say more trouble than it is worth, but more work than user may consider worthwhile.
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
Belated reply/question.
I am running Sid based on antiX-19. Interested in removing unnecessary software – especially stuff related to systemd.
So I just installed seatd and libseat1 (antiX versions) and then ran a simulated purge of libelogind0.
This not only would remove elogind, libelogind0 and libpam-elogind, but a a bunch of pipewire packages and 2 libapt packages.
So, apparently unlike VLC, pipewire (and I assume pulseaudio) are dependent upon libelogind0.
I did see one poster on Reddit saying that using pam_rundir allowed him/her to successfully run Pipewire without elogind. But, at least for tonight, it seems way above my linux paygrade.
Parentheticallty, I am really enjoying listening to music on my usb headphones thru Pipewire (version 0.3.51-1) on this old laptop.
stevesr0
marcelocripe
Although I would like antiX to be not only systemd-free but also 100% elogind-free too (that is/will be how the iso files are/will be shipped), I do understand that it may not be possible/an option for all antiX users.
Thanks a lot for keeping antiX free from systemd. We have fewer and fewer free systemd GNU/Linux distributions.
I am not going to repackage the whole of Debian, but I will try vlc since it seems to be popular
If more people learn to package for .deb, the smaller their workload will be and we’ll have more systemd-free programs in the antiX repository.
Thank you very much anticapitalista.
– – – – –
Although I would like antiX to be not only systemd-free but also 100% elogind-free too (that is/will be how the iso files are/will be shipped), I do understand that it may not be possible/an option for all antiX users.
Muito obrigado por manter o antiX livre do systemd. Cada vez temos menos distribuições GNU/Linux livres de systemd.
I am not going to repackage the whole of Debian, but I will try vlc since it seems to be popular
Se mais pessoas aprenderem a empacotar para .deb, menor será a sua carga de trabalho e teremos mais programas livres de systemd no repositório do antiX.
Muito obrigado anticapitalista.
- This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Brian Masinick. Reason: changed .de to .deb as it is in native language
Hi again,
Tonight I looked at removing elogind and libelogind0 on my Sid install. elogind caused only the removal of an associated pam package, but trying to remove libelogind0 resulted in a problem with apt because (supposedly) libaptpkg6.0 (>=2.5.0) “was not going to be installed” and libsystemd0 (= libelogind0) another dependency was going to be removed. (N.B. according to aptitude, libaptpkg6.0, v.2.5.0 IS installed.)
This seems to be different than olsztyn’s experience. Don’t know how to analyze this…appreciate comments.
stevesr0
sudo apt -s remove libelogind0 [sudo] password for stevesr0: Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree... Done Reading state information... Done Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or been moved out of Incoming. The following information may help to resolve the situation: The following packages have unmet dependencies: apt : Depends: libapt-pkg6.0 (>= 2.5.0) but it is not going to be installed Depends: libsystemd0 E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.ModdIt
AntiX 21 Testing.
I get results below, not worrying about it as system is stable and very fast.sudo apt -s remove libelogind0
Wants to remove
libixml10 libopenmpt-modplug1 libqt5x11extras5 libspatialaudio0 libupnp13
libvlc-bin libvlc5 libx264-163 libxcb-xv0 vlc-bin vlc-data vlc-plugin-qt
vlc-plugin-video-output
Verwenden Sie »sudo apt autoremove«, um sie zu entfernen.
Die folgenden Pakete werden ENTFERNT:
at-spi2-core libelogind0 rsyslog vlc vlc-plugin-baseAntiX 21 Testing. libseat1 and seatd are both newest versions
$ sudo apt install seatd libseat1
libseat1 ist schon die neueste Version (0.6.4-1.0antix2).
seatd ist schon die neueste Version (0.6.4-1.0antix2).I think it is highly unlikely there would be any an issue with a fresh setup based
on antiX testing. Anticapitalista has stated working, I trust him.Hi all,
After today’s apt update and full-upgrade, I get the following when I try to remove libelogind0 from my Sid system:
$ sudo apt remove -s libelogind0 Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree... Done Reading state information... Done The following packages will be REMOVED: at-spi2-core elogind gir1.2-wp-0.4 gstreamer1.0-pipewire libapt-inst2.0 libapt-pkg5.0 libelogind0 libpam-elogind libpipewire-0.3-0 libpipewire-0.3-modules libspa-0.2-bluetooth libspa-0.2-modules libwireplumber-0.4-0 libwireplumber-0.4-dev pipewire pipewire-audio-client-libraries pipewire-bin pipewire-pulse pipewire-tests wireplumberNote that today’s updates included apt and libaptpkg6.0 and apt is no longer blocking the removal of libelogind0. Note that unlike Moddit’s reults, vlc packages are not affected (Thanks anticapitalista). However, pipewire related packages are still dependent upon libelogind0, (although not apparently upon elogind).
Since I am enjoying Pipewire, I won’t remove libelogind0 unless I can figure a substitute.
stevesr0
22 May 22
I repeated the simulated removal of elogind and libelogind0 with same results (libseat isn’t listed for removal).
Confusing to me is that when I run apt-rdepends -r for elogind and for libelogind0, libseat1 IS listed as depending upon EACH.
$ sudo apt-rdepends -r elogind | grep libseat Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree... Done Reading state information... Done Reverse Depends: libseat1 (0.6.4-1.0antix2) libseat1 Reverse Depends: libseat-dev (= 0.6.4-1.0antix2) Reverse Depends: libseat1-dbgsym (= 0.6.4-1.0antix2) libseat-dev libseat1-dbgsym stevesr0@stevesFujitsu:~ $ sudo apt-rdepends -r libelogind0 | grep libseat Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree... Done Reading state information... Done Reverse Depends: libseat1 (0.6.4-1.0antix2) libseat1 Reverse Depends: libseat-dev (= 0.6.4-1.0antix2) Reverse Depends: libseat1-dbgsym (= 0.6.4-1.0antix2) libseat-dev libseat1-dbgsym Reverse Depends: libseat1 (>= 0.6.4-1)Appreciate thoughts about how this comes about.
stevesr0
addendum – If “Package B” is dependent upon “Package A”, won’t apt remove Package B if Package A is removed (or display a problem that blocks that removal of Package A)?
if libseat1 is dependent upon elogind and libelogind0, why isn’t it listed as a package to be removed when a simulated removal of elogind or libelogind0 is performed (see post above [#83464])?
stevesr0
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