- This topic has 15 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated Nov 7-11:07 pm by Brian Masinick.
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ModdIt
regarding the friendly, i felt inquisitive animal in my pic.
There is much misconception about bovines.
They are usualy pretty gentle, unless goaded that is, or defending their young. Be careful with frisians and swiss mountain
cattle, frisian are bad tempered giant udder btrds, the mountain cows roam free and very quickly get upset if you go between them and
offspring. they will fight off dogs wolves even bears. Means idiots from the city who shout shoo at a herd then pick up their wining or
stupidly barking dog are gettin a lesson, or killed. those who have a brain back off slowly and hope the dog has the sense to run away
from harm.
On id for cattle, Branding and ear Notching, if done correctly a Branding seems not to bother cattle or sheep too much, i think that
was stopped to please tanners wanting no damage on skin. Ears are very sensitive so better left alone, my opinion..In this day and age maybe an RFID/sat track capsule under the skin would be the alternative I would favour for free moving
animals, especialy if theft a worry. I have seen horn engraving on highland cattle as well as tattoo, that
does disappear under hair though. Galloway etc are shaggy hairy animals. RFID/SAT ID could be effective with exception of field butchery
where only stolen meat is transported.In many parts of the world cows are very much a respected important part of the family, house clean, come when called. Sure they may get
eaten but beef is often in relation to income very expensive.In europe we are in a crazy world of subventions, A Kilo of carrots from a Bio Farm costs more than same amount of pig, chicken or beef
from conventional stinking disease ridden highly subventioned mass producing meat farm sheds. I have by the way seen how these things work,
directly. All kids should have to visit these places as well as slaughterhauses, have to kill a chicken, pluck and gut it, make lunch for
the family instead of buying pieces of dead animals in pretty plastic packages. catch hunt kill prepare, without that they will never learn
respect.
Kids here often only know a cow or pig from books. Free grazing does not produce tons of “so called meat” in the shortest possible time.
Insipid watery and often antibiotic treated. antibiotics speed weight gain, often hormones are used in feed or injected.
Xecure
In europe we are in a crazy world of subventions, A Kilo of carrots from a Bio Farm costs more than same amount of pig, chicken or beef
from conventional stinking disease ridden highly subventioned mass producing meat farm sheds.And supermarkets making over 70% of the profits, and farmers getting shit for their products (with the excuse that they are already recieving subventions.
Kids here often only know a cow or pig from books. Free grazing does not produce tons of “so called meat” in the shortest possible time.
That reminded me of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkmA3Y6BFowantiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.
Brian Masinick
https://www.biz2credit.com/blog/2020/05/22/grocery-store-profit-margins-and-how-to-calculate-yours/
In the USA the average grocery store margin is 2.2%.
On the other hand, the profit margin in the overall food and beverage sector is vastly different – much more! 22.05%!
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Brian MasinickXecure
In the USA the average grocery store margin is 2.2%.
This is not what I am talking about.
I am talking about how much of the percentage of the product price goes to the farmer, and where the rest goes to.
For oranges valued 1.00€uros, the farmer gets around 22 cents.
In my country, food VAT is around 10%, so 0.90€ goes to the supermarket. If we don’t count for transport and other expenses, 0.90€ – 0.22€ = 0.68€ -> around 70% of net profit.From the same article you linked:
So, for example, if you buy a bag of rice from your supplier for 25 cents and then sell that same bag of rice to a customer for $1.50, your gross profit for each bag of rice sold would be $1.25—or a gross profit margin of 80 percent.
Food is essential for living. How can they sell it for 5x times its cost? Where does all the money go? Is it fair for poor people to pay those prices?
People who produce food don’t see the money, so they just give up, and big industries/companies, who can cut the costs with dubious and amoral methods, buy all farms and industrialize them.
All this leads to hungry poor and worse quality of food. We will end up in a future where artificial food is the only option for normal people, and only the rich will be able to feed themselves with “the good stuff”. What a “bright” future.- This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by Xecure. Reason: quote from article
- This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by Xecure. Reason: Opinion
antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.Brian Masinick
@Xecure: Yes, you are right on several points – the resellers of farm goods often get a lot more of the total price of food and beverage items unless both the farm land AND the items produced are BOTH owned by a large corporate endeavor, which is often the case.
My only point was that in the USA the small grocer is NOT a primary profit earner, nor is the farmer; the large food and beverage companies are the big gainers. It sounds as if the situation is worse in some other countries. Most farmers are either able to sell their wares to local consumers (or even privately) if they are a small farm or sell in bulk to buyers -it is these “buyers” who are the big profit-takers – unless the farm owner and the buyer are actually part of the same organization. For example, if Del Monte owns a farm, they may employ those who work there. Without the doubt, those with money for land and investments are the same ones making the largest amounts of money, but there are opportunities in the US for small-time farmers to do well.
In my own extended family, my niece and her husband operate a small farm with goats, chickens, cows, and some land on which to produce. They are able to sell to people as they wish. They are not super rich, they are actually young and resourceful, but doing fine without a big corporate hand getting in their way.
My oldest sister has two sons. One of them is married to a woman who has counseling skills herself, but her side of the family operates one of the larger dairy farms in the state of Michigan. I’m sure that they sell plenty of their products to dairy companies, but they have size and scale to do what they want, which may include selling products directly, though I am not certain of exactly what they do. What I am certain of is that they own a LOT of property, it is profitable, they do well enough to support numerous farms and miles of properties. Someone at some point in time invested in property, buildings, etc.
The positive take from this is that with intelligence, hard work and a way to either borrow or gain capital, it is possible to start or maintain a farm business with success in the country in which we live. The farmer may or may not make the most profit in the food chain, depending on what extent of it they own or control, but it is at least possible to do both, earn a good (and fair) living.
I also recognize that there is plenty of injustice out there, both in the USA and around the world. There are those who perpetuate such things, but there are also good people and those who fight for the rights of all. I hope I am showing that I appreciate that there is both good and bad in these situations, and I think that the more that the bad is exposed, the better chance there is to do something positive about it.
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Brian MasinickXecure
Mr Masinick. I see you have a positive mindset and see things neutrally and holistically but, to me, too positively.
My view of how the world seem to work is much more negative. I believe Europe never left the feudal ages, and the system has only changed a bit. Now, instead of wars to crown a new king, it is a “peaceful war” (election) what is being “performed”, where every 4-6 years, our right to decide is being “taken hostage”, without the possibility to “recover” that vote and give it to someone else.
Everybody wants change, but no-one wants the responsibility of making and taking decisions. It is easier to give that right to someone else and later blame them for not performing their duty. It is like when some religious extremists. They pray for their deity to save them and then blame them when things don’t go as expected, never trying to save themselves.While we remain in a neo-feudal state, where others govern and bring change, change will only come from the ones who invest in “our kings”, and not from the ones that are “represented” by the feudal lord.
True democracy (my definition), is when everyone in the community/country take the power to decide, create and vote for change (the laws), and then latter acknowledge their responsibility in the changes they have pushed forward. If something goes wrong, they need to have the capacity for auto criticism and be able to back down and take a different approach, instead of obsessing in ideology and pushing something just to not admit it was wrong.
In this day and age, anyone who knows or has participated in an open-source project should know that this true democracy is possible. With opensource, anyone can participate in a project that benefit not only them but everyone else who uses it. Why not have the same system to create laws and vote globally? If you are not good writing, you can help with getting statistics, computing costs, spreading the idea, creating infographics, finding other past propositions, investigating how other places have handle similar issues, discussing with others, finding people who can make these projects a reality, etc. Everyone would be able to participate and have the power to decide the future of their country (and work to make it take shape), and not have to give that power to someone else who you cannot trust to keep their word.
Unfortunately, real democracy will not come, at least in my lifetime, probably not in any lifetime. All the time used for “entertainment” and “evading reality” would be “lost”, and people would not like that (both who produce, finance and consume it). Life is suffering for many of the human beings in this world, and the only way for many to keep living is to forget about our suffering by distracting ourselves with other things, to forget our pain, problems, or avoid our thoughts.
I also recognize that there is plenty of injustice out there, both in the USA and around the world. There are those who perpetuate such things, but there are also good people and those who fight for the rights of all. I hope I am showing that I appreciate that there is both good and bad in these situations, and I think that the more that the bad is exposed, the better chance there is to do something positive about it.
No matter how much we expose the problems, nothing will change until people take charge, instead of asking others to change them.
Good thing this is an “Off Topic” discussion. I try to avoid speaking my mind on many topics, but this heavy week has me a bit in the mood to stop my self-filtering/censoring.
antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.farmers getting shit for their products (with the excuse that they are already recieving subventions.
Within UK and The EU so called farmers have in many cases no need to produce anything, they have inherited
land, get a lawyer and a tax (evasion) adviser, pick up many thousands for driving Range Rover to the bar,
playing with huge tractors while holding horses on prime land. i mean horses as toys, not for meat.
Pigs are transported from Lower Saxony to poland for slaughter, it is cheaper, the hind quarters then travel
to to Sierra Alpucharra in spain for smoking, back to capitals of europe and sale as prime alpucharras bacon.
Leaving land to just grow over with schrubs is at times more profitable in subvention than crops.Where I live huge quantitys of sweet corn are grown for so called green energy, rotting under tents for gas.
The excrement of the town could do that but no gas is harvested, why, farmers lobby. Shit and waste is vented
in to rivers and streams without adaquat treatment destroying the aquasystem, and groundwater too.Who wins, coca pepsi nestle and a few other major corporations. The aforementioned I avoid wherever possible,
worst ist nestle as they are rarely open about which products they earn on.Xecure
Within UK and The EU so called farmers have in many cases no need to produce anything
It seems the farmers I know (close friends and family) are not the ones you know. They live with large debts because of demanding procedures from the EU and from distributers, which change every 10 years or so, where they have to change (buy) new machinery or else they won’t accept their products. I suppose there are always bastards who know how to make use and take advantage of the system, but the ones that suffer aren’t them.
Shit and waste is vented in to rivers and streams without adaquat treatment destroying the aquasystem, and groundwater too.
Illegal by EU law, but I suppose those farmers simply pay someone to “look the other way”.
Who wins, coca pepsi nestle and a few other major corporations. The aforementioned I avoid wherever possible, worst ist nestle as they are rarely open about which products they earn on.
I agree. I have been avoiding these companies for years now. They exploit people, land and the natural water streams. But still people I know will buy from these companies, not believing anything “the conspiranoics” say.
antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.
anticapitalista
Re – farmers in the EU.
I think it depends mostly on social class.
Certainly there are wealthy farmers milking EU subsidies. I remember my dad telling me that there was no such thing as a poor farmer. This was in Norfolk, England where the land was mainly owned and run by huge agribusiness interests. This is still true today, not just in the more powerful EU states (France, Germany), but also where I live in Greece.
However, Xecure is also correct. There are plenty (perhaps the majority) of farmers who struggle to survive.- This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by anticapitalista. Reason: fix typos
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
Brian Masinick
@Xecure: and @Moddit: Gentlemen, I acknowledge the extreme injustice that exists in many places. It’s not absent in the USA either, but there ARE opportunities in this country that are apparently very rare in other regions and countries.
Some of the richest people in the entire world live in the country in which I live, so I am not naive to think there are no inequities or injustices. What I do say is that from where I come there are at least opportunities, and millions of people who grew up in relative (or absolute) poverty, especially 60-90 years ago have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren that have come very far.
My wife and I watched a documentary about recently deceased US Supreme Court justice Ruth Baker Ginsberg. Both Ruth and her husband came from humble means, but they worked hard, overcame obstacle after obstacle, went to college, graduate schools, and studied law. I believe that they were either immigrants or the next generation after immigrants themselves.
Ruth was the only woman graduating in her law school class. She was a soft spoken person, but extremely intelligent, fought injustice and prejudice against herself, a short, out of place person who nevertheless obtained a law degree among men, worked law cases that fought for the justice of men, women, minorities, and anyone else facing injustices. In 1993 she was so recognized – and took so many of her cases – to the Supreme Court – that she was considered to be a Supreme Court Justice. When Bill Clinton took office, shortly thereafter there was a vacancy and several potential candidates emerged. Clinton, not really knowing Ginsberg at the time, interviewed her, and was immediately impressed and in less than 15 minutes, knew that he could nominate her as a Supreme Court Justice, get “recognition” for nominating a woman, and yet at the same time, getting the best possible person on that very important court.
This person, in her lifetime, did more in our country for justice and equality in as many ways as possible. In spite of her fantastic efforts, there are plenty of problems. Nevertheless there are opportunities in the country in which I live because of people like this.
The original immigrants to the USA were outcasts, for the most part, in their countries. Many of the principles that were founded attempted to make provisions to form something better. Hundreds of years later there are still plenty of problems, but I’m here to tell you that the scenarios you gentlemen share are not the scenarios of the majority. In the area in which I now live, you can still see racism and other issues, but you can also see many small businesses that do well. We have a local farmer’s market that operates for a few months each year and we get to directly purchase fruits, vegetables, meats, and hand-made local products that are not made by some big, huge money machine. We purchase things from family owned businesses, very similar to the one that my niece and her husband operate in another state.
The whole world isn’t this way, and not all of our country is (unfortunately) either. But it isn’t all negative. A son of two parents who lived through the “Great Depression” of the 1930s, my father was an American born son of Ukranian parents. His father worked in dirty coal mines in west central Pennsylvania; my grandfather died of coal miner’s lung disease before I was born, but he was able to support a large family, and all of his children, including my father, went on to be successful.
My mother similarly, was born an American of English parents. Her father was an orphan; his wife and their family knew him. My English grandparents moved to the USA in or around 1917 – and I think that my father’s parents came over around the same time – near the first world war. The English family was also poor, but my grandfather was able to be a draftsman, working mostly with machinery – much of which ended up being automotive related. The English family struggled through the wars and the Great Depression but all children did well in school and that next generation did better.
My family started out in humble ways, but grew to success through education and hard work. My father started out doing “underwriter” insurance, a steady, but not particularly high paying position but because of the excellence of his work, great work ethic and high intelligence plus a kind, well spoken manner, my father became an executive in the insurance industry, managing multi-million dollar accounts. Our family never became millionaires, but we were able to also get good educations. I did well in math and science, found an interest in Computer Science, and had a good career. I was NOT a “rock star”, but I was able to survive both good and difficult times.
Stories like this are very common. My wife’s father was a Sicilian-Italian, her mother was Italian. They were extremely bright and resourceful, but Mary’s father did not get a degree or rise up through the ranks. He did teach his children well though. Mary’s brothers are 1. A project management mechanical engineer in automotive technology, 2. A major hotel chain manager, 3. An Emergency medicine doctor. My wife is a retired educator with advanced degrees in speech and language pathology and guidance counseling. My wife has helped students from a relatively poor community successfully navigate school, get admitted to good colleges and many of her students have brought a better future to their families too.
This isn’t just about farming; it is about opportunities; they are not easy, but they do exist in the places I’ve lived, and they exist in agriculture, business, and technology. None of the people in this situations started out “rich” or anything even close. Today, everyone is at least managing well, a few people have been exceptional and took our family legacy from poor, humble beginnings to much more, yet everyone still knows that humble beginning very well.
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Brian MasinickXecure
I have nothing but respect for you, Mr Masinick. But I cannot say the same thing about your country. I understand you feel pride for it, so I won’t say any more unnecessary things to keep the image you have of it.
As you say, there are opportunities, but the one your grandfather found to give a future for your father and siblings is the reason he died, and could easily have been avoided. Sacrificing one’s life for a better future for others is not what I consider a just opportunity, and knowledge about poisoning for working in mines has been known for many hundred of years. This could have been avoided. I feel sad for all the time his illness took from his life. My father, to give us a better future, also had to sacrifice a lot, reducing his health on extremely heavy work and in terrible conditions, which could have been avoided, but wasn’t because it was much more profitable for the ones exploiting him. These “opportunities” only lead to suffering, even if they give “profit” to all parties involved.
Anyways, I am happy for you and your family, that they have done well. I also hope they continue doing well. It is good to know they have found good opportunities and hope they continue having them.
antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.Brian Masinick
Not every situation was exploitation.
My Grandfather Masinick was able to move to Michigan and work at a tire factory.
Way back then those places smelled terrible but so much has changed and both people and companies have vastly improved.Other sons of Grandpa Masinick also worked in various roles at the tire company. Several of them were also smart and didn’t have to remain factory workers. Also companies have greatly improved factory life in many ways and offer some of the best paying “Blue Collar” jobs in the world.
We still have many problems to solve. Smart people who do not settle for the status quo and also remain calm do a great job to bring about very positive change. RBG *the revered former Supreme Court Justice” is one of the best examples of this. She opposed many things, yet even judges who had strongly opposing views still loved and respected her. What a wonderful world it would be with more people who live to provide true equal opportunity for all instead of mere “Lip Service” to “a great world” while it’s only “great” for the privileged few.
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Brian Masinick@masinik, you see life out of the eyes of a member of a priveledged few.
In your case you are doing some work for common good so I will not say much.
USA Present is disgusting. Bavaria kicked out the grandfather of the greatest (insane) president
of the universe. That family made a fortune out of drugs and prostitution, trafficking to railway
workers. And that deranged creature has US on the brink of the next civil war..
RBG *the revered former Supreme Court Justice” is one of the best examples of this, sure but the
new one is racist and many of her views faschistic.What a wonderful world it would be with more people who live to provide true equal opportunity for all
instead of mere “Lip Service” to “a great world” while it’s only “great” for the privileged few.That would be nice but the USA has claims to lead the universe and it is working for the few.
Brian Masinick
I’ve never heard of a perfect place to live that doesn’t have any problems at all. Many people hate the country where I live.
All I can tell you, like “Ebony and Ivory” is that there is good and bad everywhere and there is also an opportunity to do good, be considerate of others, kind to people, etc. That’s all I want to do.
I can’t fix the whole world, nor can anyone else. What I can do is to at least attempt to be kind, caring and helpful. I’m far from perfect but I do the best that I can.
One kind act from each person results in a surprise for many people.
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Brian MasinickXecure
I’ve never heard of a perfect place to live that doesn’t have any problems at all. Many people hate the country where I live.
I have nothing against the regular US citizen. I consider we are all citizens of the world.
The problem is the USA as a country, as a separate entity, trying to take over and/or control other lands. Most US citizens don’t know what their country does or has done outside their borders. They don’t even know what is happening in the rest of the world, so they cannot be blamed for the evil their country has done. BUT it would be good they start seeing that their country is NOT a representation of their people. If they want to call their country “theirs”, they need to stop being slaves of the neo-feudal state and ask to be involved in their own government.
Not only the USA, I would really love this to occur in the country I live in. But some people don’t want people to govern themselves. We need a new French Revolution (but less violent, I hope), and not change a king for a “governor”, but that all people can help manage their country if they want to participate in it. No more politicians, please.One kind act from each person results in a surprise for many people.
I agree. Acts of kindness should be valued the same as any other product creation. Creating value is NOt only selling products, but improving other people’s lives.
antiX Live system enthusiast.
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