What’s the future of antiX?

[Member punranger]

Hi, I’m curious if the developers have some kind of consensus on the future of antiX? Specifically I’m curious about what the future of “old computers” is like on antiX. In my case, I’ve been able to revive and successfully use several old laptops and desktops for many different kinds of use. I’ve seen it stated that you could run antiX on old Pentium III boxes, and I haven’t tried that. But I have successfully run antiX on for example a Pentium M system from around 2005.

I guess the question is: What kind of minimum system requirements can we expect for future releases of antiX? (The flipside of that question is: How long can I expect my old hardware to have updated and secure software?)

I’d also be interested in the question in a more general sense – what kind of vision do you have for antiX in the future?

Thanks again for a truly marvelous piece of work!

antiX linux: The best way to revive an old computer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTaUAP6sSg

[Member sybok]

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Hi, I am not an antiX developer; nevertheless, I dare to make a comment regarding min. system requirements.

They are dictated by SW one decides to use, including HW support in kernel versions being actively developed.
Distrowatch reviews often mention idle RAM consumption; that’s where antiX is great.
If you open few tabs in internet browser, play some video using mpv or other players, you can find that much more RAM is required.
Additionally, modern/current browsers usually require SSE2, internet browsing gets RAM+CPU consuming nowadays very easily.

[Member marcelocripe]

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Hello punranger.

The anticapitalista wrote in the topic Ideas for improvements in future releases some of your goals regarding the future of antiX, as well as in the other topic Future antiX
I recommend you read the whole thread, I believe some of your questions have been answered in these threads.

The antiX-17.5 “Helen Keller” update on January 9, 2022 could be a good sign of the struggle to maintain antiX compatibility with older computers.

marcelocripe
(Original text in Portuguese language of Brazil)

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Olá punranger.

O anticapitalista escreveu no tópico Ideas for improvements in future releases alguns dos seus objetivos quanto ao futuro do antiX, bem como no outro tópico Future antiX
Eu recomendo você ler todo o tópico, eu acredito que algumas das suas perguntas tenham sido respondidas nestes tópicos.

A atualização do antiX-17.5 “Helen Keller” no dia 09 Janeiro de 2022 pode ser um bom sinal da luta para manter a compatibilidade do antiX com computadores antigos.

marcelocripe
(Texto original em idioma Português do Brasil)

[Member punranger]

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Thank you Marcelo!

antiX linux: The best way to revive an old computer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTaUAP6sSg

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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Over time, nearly all systems increase in size, both the size of the image and the amount of resources consumed.

While antiX is not completely immune to the trend, it does a better job than any other distributions I think of. Puppy does a pretty good job too, but overall antiX, at least to me, has a couple of ready to use options that keep the initial memory use near 100 MB; some people are able to configure their setup to initially consume even fewer resources than that!

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Brian Masinick

[Member PPC]

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Well, on the future of antix, particulary for very old computers, I can say that antiX 21 runs very well on an old 32bits laptop from the windows xp era. It allows me to use modern web sites (like web-mail, youtube and even, with some success, Web office suites). It plays full hd video with Xine media player, it allows me to listen to my music, and use LibreOffice- so depending on how you use your old hardware, it may be up and running (and updated) for some 5 years or so, even on 32bits/1gb or RAM devices…
Of course that if you want to play the latest game from Steam on a machine that’s old enough to vote, you can’t… You can’t also use websites with DRM video on 32 bits systems because Google does not allow that any more. If you are fortunate enough to have a multi core system, with at least 2 gig’s of RAM you can even probably play the latest video games using game streaming platforms (like Google Stadia, Xbox, etc), using a computer that’s over 10 years old just like a modern gaming console.
For work, LibreOffice (open source) and WPS (closed source, but free) allow you to use your computer for office work, and on 64bits systems, you have evon more free office suites available, and Ms Office 365 on-line runs well even on old or crappy hardware.
But how knows how computing will be done 5 years from now? No one would have guessed 12 years ago, that today most personal computing and gaming is done on hand held devices…

P.

[Member Shaynesherman]

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Thank you Marcelocripe.

[Member seaken64]

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I can’t speak for the developers. All I can say is that, so far, antiX and MX are two of very few distros that even acknowledge 32-bit computers are still in use. And of those few distros available that support 32-bit the antiX and MX distros are the most user friendly. Puppy used to be on that track but that system no longer works as well on 32-bit. Debian, the underlying distro for antiX and MX, still supports 32-bit intel processors and several other alternative processors. As long as that continues I expect antiX and MX to also support 32-bit.

If you are not using 32-bit then I would say that you will have no problem using Debian/antiX/MX for quite some time. All of these distros support 64-bit also. And it comes down to the software you choose more than anything. That’s easier in 64-bit than in 32-bit but not due to antiX choices.

Seaken64

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by seaken64.

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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I agree with you @Seaken64:
Over the past 5-8 years the number of distributions with any 32-bit support has dropped considerably, as has the number of applications that are capable of working with 32-bit hardware.

Back in the 2007-2008 timeframe, 64-bit support was already available, but the number of applications using the entire 64-bit address was limited, so I picked up two 32-bit systems (both laptops) and used them effectively for many years, but by the time I purchased my first 64-bit system, a solid (pretty heavy) Dell Inspiron 5558 laptop, the number of 32-bit distributions and applications was already limited, pretty much what you stated. So even though my 32-bit systems worked fine and I kept them for a few more years, realistically I was down to antiX, MX, Debian, and maybe an occasional other distro (or OLD CDs) to use with the 32-bit systems.

Forward to today, the Inspiron also feels it’s age; it runs well, with plenty of capacity, but the speed is leisurely. I pulled out the physical hard drive and replaced it with solid state drive (SSD) technology and that helps, but compared to newer hardware with NVME SSD, faster memory and CPU speeds, even this box, though functional, ages gracefully and is used mostly to test.

I actually obtained a few old relics from my brother in-law when he moved to a new home and cleaned out rooms with “old stuff”. All of his systems worked, and still do, but they’re a lot like this Dell – though they work, they run at a leisure pace. One of them can’t stay up long; network connections drop and hardware freezes are common, suggesting hardware nearing the failing point.

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Brian Masinick

[Member punranger]

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Thanks to seaken64 and others for your insights! I’m a bit of a non-technical user, I tend to learn things about Linux in an applied situation, like, “what do I need to do to make my wireless card work” type of problems. But what I take away from this discussion is that my question could actually be rephrased as: How long will Debian support 32-bit systems? I’m sort of hoping that my collection of old laptops and desktops will break down due to hardware failure before Debian stops supporting 32-bit systems…

antiX linux: The best way to revive an old computer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTaUAP6sSg

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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There could, and eventually there probably will, be a time when Debian, and even antiX and Puppy, will stop supporting 32-bit systems.

(Hopefully it won’t be ‘too soon’), but the reason is that the stack of modules that the kernels support grows larger and larger, and it gets increasingly complicated to support multiple generations of hardware in a single image. That’s why even today we have 3-4 kernels always available.

For those who want to continue to use old systems, a day will come when you will have to use old (unsupported) software to use it.

Some people are using antiX versions like antiX 15, maybe even 12-13 in order to be able to boot modules supporting really old hardware.

On the other hand, we DO have 10-15 year old hardware that still has support and there are still some pretty good and pretty old 64-bit systems available. Don’t lose hope; we DO have good support for old hardware and Debian, in spite of the ‘questionable’ choice to adopt the systemD scheduling method, still has a lot of other good software too.

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Brian Masinick

[Member marcelocripe]

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How long will Debian support 32-bit systems?

Punranger, with your new question, I can answer you the same one I always write in the Telegram and WhatsApp groups of antiX and MX Linux users, I usually write for everyone to register in the forum of their respective GNU distribution /Linux, create a topic in the English language area Welcome to antiX (something I didn’t realize I should and could have done here on this forum when I started testing and getting to know antiX in May 2020). Developers need to know that you use antiX, MX Linux, Debian or one of its derivatives, etc.; developers need to know that we use older 32-bit and 64-bit computers; developers need to know that we need and use these operating systems created by them.

Punranger, consider registering on the Debian forum, if you haven’t already, take your need and they, I commit to participating in your topic on the Debian forum. Furthermore, I imagine that Debian developers may not know that many people use old 32-bit computers and laptops, that antiX is one of the few GNU/Linux distributions that care about these technologies that are still in operation, that Debian’s decisions and actions to discontinue support for older 32-bit computers and laptops directly reflect on antiX and other Debian-derived distributions.

I hope that my good intentions are not lost in the automatic translation into English of the above text.

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How long will Debian support 32-bit systems?

Punranger, com a sua nova pergunta, eu posso lhe responder o mesmo que eu sempre escrevo nos grupos de Telegram e WhatsApp de usuários do antiX e do MX Linux, eu costumo escrever para todas as pessoas fazerem o cadastro no fórum da sua respectiva distribuição GNU/Linux, criar um tópico na área em idioma Inglês Welcome to antiX (algo que eu não percebi que deveria e que eu poderia ter feito aqui neste fórum quando eu comecei a testar e conhecer o antiX em Maio de 2020). Os desenvolvedores precisam saber que você utiliza o antiX, o MX Linux, o Debian ou um dos seus derivados, etc.; os desenvolvedores precisam saber que nós utilizamos computadores antigos de 32 e 64 bits; os desenvolvedores precisam saber que nós precisamos e utilizamos estes sistemas operacionais criados por eles.

Punranger, considere fazer o seu cadastro no fórum do Debian, caso você ainda não tenha feito, leve a sua necessidade e eles, eu me comprometo a participar do seu tópico no fórum do Debian. Além do mais, eu imagino que os desenvolvedores do Debian talvez não saibam que várias pessoas utilizam computadores e laptops antigos de 32 bits, que o antiX é uma das poucas distribuições GNU/Linux que se importam com estas tecnologias que ainda estão em funcionamento, que as decisões e ações do Debian em descontinuar o suporte aos computadores e laptops antigos de 32 bits refletem diretamente no antiX e em outras distribuições derivadas do Debian.

Eu espero que as minhas boas intenções não sejam perdidas na tradução automática para o idioma Inglês do texto acima.

[Member seaken64]

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I do think it will be harder for the non-technical among us. If one can learn to compile their own software it will give them more options. If I could not upgrade to a 64-bit system I would learn to compile the kernel and other software needed to support my machine.

Short of learning to be one’s own developer, I suggest that everyone do their best to acquire a 64-bit machine as soon as possible. With that said, I think the old Pentium M and Pentium 4 systems will still be useful and usable for quite some time yet. But you will need to learn how to manage the software on your own. As the upstream software moves forward you will be left behind using older software. But you can do it. I still use some old Debian, antiX and Puppy systems that are “end of life” as far as development and updates go. But they still work. It is up to me to manage my own security needs and be careful. It is not the developers of antiX or Debian who are responsible for me choosing to use old software. But I can say that when compared to Windows or MAC even an older Linux distro is superior. Much more “modern” software can be supported in an older Linux distro than in Windows or MAC.

Seaken64

[Member olsztyn]

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Another perspective of this thread (in addition to 32bit support):
In result of major advancements successfully implemented, current antiX 21 Runit is the top (IMHO) accomplishment thanks to lots of work of dedicated developers and vision of antiX owner.
Namely:
– Runit init system has been brought to perfection, and service management tool implemented. Major contribution of Xecure in this area…
– In addition to being systemd-free, antiX is now elogind-free as well for those who do not need.
– Login manager Slim replaced with Slimski.
– Leading file manager (SpaceFM) simplified/enhanced and renamed to zzz.
– Many software packages made elogind-free
– Live antiX boot menus enhanced, allowing choice of kernels and Frugals discovery greatly enhanced.
The above are just a few major, so please mention other major improvements I missed… Fact is that antiX 21 Runit became a show of perfection in design, stability and efficiency.

Having said the above, what would be the next major enhancement antiX owner is thinking of, apart from just migrations to newer kernels and Debian version? Or is antiX 21 at the top of the curve just to enjoy stability for years to come?
These questions are augmented by the fact that many developers who contributed to where antiX is now, do not seem to be connected to antiX activities in recent times anymore: Xecure, skidoo, BitJam, SamK…

These are just my two cents on this thread…
Thanks and Regards…

Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

[Member PPC]

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olsztyn wrote:

Leading file manager (SpaceFM) simplified/enhanced and renamed to zzz.

– I agree completely with everything you said – and I’m trying to add even more features, out of the box, to zzzfm – like a trash can, recent files, mounting cloud drives and automagically discover and mount shared network drives with a single click – that is being included in the ft10’s script that (optionally) configures zzzfm to look more mainstream and even more feature rich. If it was up to me, zzzfm would be the default choice for antiX’s file manager – lots of users that tested antiX ran away screaming because of rox-filer (that is great, but could use some default configuration that made it act and feel more like most people expect a modern file manager).

P.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by PPC.

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