- This topic has 54 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated Mar 24-4:05 pm by Brian Masinick.
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Xunzi_23
Why, an example from today, antiX 22, download, you get a list of mirrors, choose one nearby, get
a long list of choices and checksums. I am frequently asked, wtf is it all about.Anyway, download full ISO antiX22 Runit, sha256sum checks ok, write to a stick and
boot, er no user chose modern kernel, Green screen comes up. Tries the whole proceedure again,
reward, next green screen.Tries the kernel for older devices, gets a boot and desktop. Had previously read some docs so does
dist-upgrade. Remasters the stick, no errors shown. Time to reboot
right
Wrong, now both kernels fail modern with the wonderful greenscreen, the older says non lethal error
missing kernel modules for installed kernel, can chose c for continue, do so. X loop Crashes.I have confirmed this myself, even with a second device I was unable to get the device working with antiX 22
unless I did not update.Tested with my antiX 23 stick. and kernel 6.1.18-antix.1-amd64-smp, the Graphics are NVidia, GTX550TI a card
which was very popular and in this case neccesary as the guy has a CPU without integrated graphics.I leave it to others to imigne the naughty words which bounced around the room.
Without a second computer and some help a situation where the user sees all the bad words about linux as being true.
I would not blame him for the belief.On antiX 23 I had a similar frustrating situation, unable to boot to desktop until after a kernel update to 6 series.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Xunzi_23.
anticapitalista
Why, an example from today, antiX 22, download, you get a list of mirrors, choose one nearby, get
a long list of choices and checksums. I am frequently asked, wtf is it all about.So, should we only show a few mirrors?
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
anticapitalista
If users have hardware that requires a 6 series kernel, then they will have to wait for antiX-23.
When antiX-21/22 was released, a 6 series kernel was just a twinkle in Linus’s eye.Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
PPC
antiX 22, download, you get a list of mirrors, choose one nearby, get
a long list of choices and checksumsYes. This is a case of “too much choice”- users want a single simple download. Some OS, specially 64bits ones, offer that. We have 2 supported architectures, and that messes everything up a bit… but we also have net, base, full versions – users that know exactly what they want are pleased, because they can download an OS tailored to their own needs… “Regular” users will just think: “6 versions? What the…?”
One can work around that by having an home page that has several download buttons, pointing to a particular server. Example:antiX 22 (the more recent version, supported until XX/XX/XX)
64 bits antiX ____________________________________________32 bits antiX
(ideal for most modern computers —————————— (for very old devices,
built in the last 10 years or so)———————- but it also installs in modern computers
—————————————————–but some software does not support 32 bits any more)Each column would have options (identified as 64 bits and 32 bit):
Full – the most complete version, includes
an Office and supports more hardware
THIS VERSION is ADVISABLE FOR MOST COMPUTERS
CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOADBase – Os with full GUI, but no Office and
less packages and hardware support
CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOADNet – light version, no GUI ….
CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOADNo checksums, no nothing. Then it can offer a link for the download server, for users that want to manually pick the iso, get the checksums, runit version, etc…
About “green screens of death” – similar things can happen in any OS- how many Windows pc’s got bricked by automatic updates??? Fortunately that never happened to me. And yes, I would get really pissed if I started with a working system, updated it and in return got a bricked machine…
Lets hope antiX 23 can avoid that entirely!
P.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by PPC.
anticapitalista
@PPC – that seems just as confusing as to what we have now as well as missing some information (sid editions) 🙂
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
that seems just as confusing as to what we have now as well as missing some information (sid editions)
Sorry, our formatting here in the forum does not help, and I was over simplying the options… I know next to nothing about HTLM, but I’ll try to build a page to show you my idea.
The main point is that the version that most people should use (64bit, FUll, no sid, no runnit) shoulw be available to download from a button straight from the start of the “Download” page…P.
Robin
This is a case of “too much choice”- users want a single simple […] “Regular” users will just think: “6 versions? What the…?”
Please don’t remove the variety of choices from antiX! That’s a really bad idea.
Btw, concerning the threads topic, I’ve accidentally left a rant about exactly this question in the other thread. It’s about consistency and reliability of workflow and availability of tools, which I consider to be neglected by linux in general.
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
Please don’t remove the variety of choices from antiX! That’s a really bad idea.
I agree, and I was not suggesting the removal of any choice! My idea is to just, first, show the simpler options, that most people will want to click, then, all the remaining options- keep things right as they are, but add a simplified layer to the start of the downloads page…
Regarding antiX 22 I am unsure when changes to something in the system or older kernel began to cause problems.
Maybe I can find a stick which will still boot in the depths of a dusty storage box.I just had an hour long call from Welshman, seems his wife needs some serious assistance, both users give valuable
feedback as for them first linux experience. They need more in the taskbar to save time searching through menus
and figuring out what is behind unfamiliar (to them) application names.The popup icons BobC initiated are highly appreciated by the way :-).
Regarding downloads, I think as PPC suggests a simple selection layer with short explanation would be useful.
@anticapitalista: Hum… I could not do the mock up in html… so I created a simple pdf…
- This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by PPC.
Attachments:
RJP
Any operating system will be popular if it is pre-installation to computer. Popularity does not correspond with quality.
Brian Masinick
If users have hardware that requires a 6 series kernel, then they will have to wait for antiX-23.
When antiX-21/22 was released, a 6 series kernel was just a twinkle in Linus’s eye.This is an excellent case. When antiX 21 (and later 22) were introduced, I had to copy significant modules from other Debian-based systems that had the modern kernel, device support modules, and wireless firmware to support my hardware.
It took me several hours to physically do, but it took at least 3-4 days to locate and capture the details I needed to do the job.
Ultimately I got antiX 21 working, and when I “updated” to 22, of course it all continued to work.Nevertheless, my current hardware on my HP-14 is NOT supported on antiX 21 or 22, nor is it yet supported on antiX 23 Alpha 1, though I am hoping in one or two baselines, I’ll have the right kernel, then everything else will come along for the ride.
There’s a lot of work that goes into adding more hardware support; I know because I added it myself for ONLY one additional version of hardware, and it took a lot of work. Imagine all of the libraries and modules that have to be added to support 75-80% of the hardware added over the past two years.
For 100%, it’s difficult in space, engineering, development and testing.--
Brian MasinickAny operating system will be popular if it is pre-installation to computer
Quite true. Unfortunately, only very tiny minority of computers are produced with Linux pre-installed. Portugal, over 10 years ago or so, had a program, where most school children got a laptop with Windows and Linux in dual boot. There were never so many Linux users in Portugal. Kids did not know what Linux was, only that “that thing ran faster than windows”. I saw some booting into windows to play games and then, switch the device off and boot it in Linux to do school stuff… My netbook is one such device, that was given to me. It has the slowest hard drive in existence- antiX is much faster running from a pendrive than installed… but other than that, it’s rock solid. They built those thinks like thanks, to endure the punishment young kids game it. It even has a mic an a webcam, boots from USB… So, it’s my back up device.
My point – yes, to be popular, an OS has to come out of the box… At least now a days… Remember when a new version of Windows came out and ordinary users bought a cd-rom at the store, popped that in and installed it? Those were the days. Ordinary people (non techies) did, in fact, know how to install an OS, and installed it left and right- no wonder MS has been pushing for making harder to install another OS on modern computers- they do not want people to figure out that they can simply pop a pen drive on their computers and have a different system…What we can do it to make it easier, for the small minority that really want to try to install a new OS on their computers…
P.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by PPC.
techore
So, should we only show a few mirrors?
I do not prescribe to the thought that fewer options result in ease of use. It may lead to ignorance, however.
Brian Masinick
So, should we only show a few mirrors?
I do not prescribe to the thought that fewer options result in ease of use. It may lead to ignorance, however.
I agree. I don’t mind placing what we believe to be the default and most common resources at the top of a list, and organize the remaining resources accordingly. If we change anything at all though, it will require care. lest we omit resources or even worse, further confuse the situation.
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Brian Masinick
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