- This topic has 11 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated Jul 16-2:35 am by Anonymous.
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dski
I know that some people like the Wingrid feature a lot.
Sorry to rain on the party, but in my experience, window managers and terminal emulators generally pass Ctrl-2 and Ctrl-6 through, since there are text-mode programs that interpret these as Ctrl-@ (0x00, ASCII NULL) and Ctrl-^ (0x1e, ASCII RS).
I’ve used Ctrl-2 for many years in virtual terminals and terminal windows, mainly to insert a space without moving the cursor in JOE (Joe’s Own Editor). It was quite disconcerting to find that this keystroke smashed my carefully sized, painstakingly positioned terminal window against the right side of the screen.
After figuring out what was going on, I disabled the whole Wingrid suite. On further reflection, I think it would be great to be able to slam a window into a corner of the screen without changing the window’s height or width. Ctrl-7 through Ctrl-0 could be used for this, giving people an easy-to-remember suite and leaving the ASCII keystrokes for programs running in terminal windows.
Thank you.
Dan Strychalski
Hsinchu, Taiwan, R.O.C.—
User interface design peaked in 1979.On the Mac, Ctrl didn't exist; in Windows, Ctrl-A through Ctrl-Z did virtually nothing. From 1985 on, the choice was clear: you could get the full benefit of the most basic standard of computing, or you could use a GUI and a crippled keyboard and become this or that vendor's slave. I chose WordStar. LIVE FREE OR DIE.
BobC
Are you using IceWM?
No — just straight JWM.
Dan Strychalski
Hsinchu, Taiwan, R.O.C.—
User interface design peaked in 1979.On the Mac, Ctrl didn't exist; in Windows, Ctrl-A through Ctrl-Z did virtually nothing. From 1985 on, the choice was clear: you could get the full benefit of the most basic standard of computing, or you could use a GUI and a crippled keyboard and become this or that vendor's slave. I chose WordStar. LIVE FREE OR DIE.
I don’t know JWM that well, but I’ve used it before and there are keyboard options available.
What version of antiX are you running? Do you have a numeric keypad on your keyboard? What kind of machine and keyboard? Does it have a Windows key?
Your answers above will determine what options need to be eliminated. For example, if you don’t have a numeric keypad you can’t use options 5 thru 12. You have already found that its important not to try to use keys needed by some other important program.
1. use Ctrl+number (current) <Key mask=”C” key=”1″>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
2. use Ctrl+Alt+number <Key mask=”CA” key=”1″>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
3. use Win+number <Key mask=”4″ key=”1″>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
4. use Alt+number <Key mask=”A” key=”1″>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
5. use Ctrl+KP_number <Key mask=”C” key=”KP_4″>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
6. use Ctrl+Alt+KP_number <Key mask=”CA” key=”KP_4″>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
7. use Win+KP_number <Key mask=”4″ key=”KP_4″>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
8. use Alt+KP_number <Key mask=”A” key=”KP_4″>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
9. use Ctrl+KP_text (KP_Left is the 4 key, others have different text, see list at bottom) <Key mask=”C” key=”KP_Left”>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
10. use Ctrl+Alt+KP_text <Key mask=”CA” key=”KP_Left”>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
11. use Win+KP_text <Key mask=”4″ key=”KP_Left”>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
12. use Alt+KP_text <Key mask=”A” key=”KP_Left”>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>Current standard code in antiX19b1 in ~/.jwm/keys This probably hasn’t changed recently. You can change it via Control Centre, Desktop, JWM settings on the keys tab near the bottom.
<!--Wingrid--> <Key mask="C" key="1">exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key> <Key mask="C" key="2">exec:wingrid-right.sh</Key> <Key mask="C" key="3">exec:wingrid-top.sh</Key> <Key mask="C" key="4">exec:wingrid-bottom.sh</Key> <Key mask="C" key="5">exec:wingrid-topleft.sh</Key> <Key mask="C" key="6">exec:wingrid-topright.sh</Key> <Key mask="C" key="7">exec:wingrid-bottomleft.sh</Key> <Key mask="C" key="8">exec:wingrid-bottomright.sh</Key> <Key mask="C" key="9">exec:wingrid-maximize.sh</Key> <Key mask="C" key="0">exec:wingrid-close.sh</Key>BTW, here is a list of the keypad keys I found
79 0xff95 (KP_Home) 0xffb7 (KP_7) 0xff95 (KP_Home) 0xffb7 (KP_7) 80 0xff97 (KP_Up) 0xffb8 (KP_8) 0xff97 (KP_Up) 0xffb8 (KP_8) 81 0xff9a (KP_Prior) 0xffb9 (KP_9) 0xff9a (KP_Prior) 0xffb9 (KP_9) 82 0xffad (KP_Subtract) 0xffad (KP_Subtract) 0xffad (KP_Subtract) 0xffad (KP_Subtract) 0xffad (KP_Subtract) 0xffad (KP_Subtract) 0x1008fe23 (XF86Prev_VMode) 83 0xff96 (KP_Left) 0xffb4 (KP_4) 0xff96 (KP_Left) 0xffb4 (KP_4) 84 0xff9d (KP_Begin) 0xffb5 (KP_5) 0xff9d (KP_Begin) 0xffb5 (KP_5) 85 0xff98 (KP_Right) 0xffb6 (KP_6) 0xff98 (KP_Right) 0xffb6 (KP_6) 86 0xffab (KP_Add) 0xffab (KP_Add) 0xffab (KP_Add) 0xffab (KP_Add) 0xffab (KP_Add) 0xffab (KP_Add) 0x1008fe22 (XF86Next_VMode) 87 0xff9c (KP_End) 0xffb1 (KP_1) 0xff9c (KP_End) 0xffb1 (KP_1) 88 0xff99 (KP_Down) 0xffb2 (KP_2) 0xff99 (KP_Down) 0xffb2 (KP_2) 89 0xff9b (KP_Next) 0xffb3 (KP_3) 0xff9b (KP_Next) 0xffb3 (KP_3) 90 0xff9e (KP_Insert) 0xffb0 (KP_0) 0xff9e (KP_Insert) 0xffb0 (KP_0) 91 0xff9f (KP_Delete) 0xffae (KP_Decimal) 0xff9f (KP_Delete) 0xffae (KP_Decimal)Hope that helps…
Anonymous
Under the status quo, wingrid is a damned nuisance (a “footgun”) for new//casual users.Yes, as dski has explained, preconfigured global keybinds which employ a single modifier (aka Ctrl+somekey) are prone to failure. When preconfiguring, we cannot know and dare not try to guess which single-modifier combos will be trapped//swallowed by any particular application. BobC, proof of this is evident in your comment regarding firefox; its event handler situationally traps (consumes) Ctrl+2, interpreting it as a “scroll to pagebottom” command.
Any preconfiguration which involves use of numpad additionally risks (severe user confusion//frustration and) failure due to: 1) absence of numpad on a given machine, and 2) brittle reliance on a presumed numlock state.
An “all in one script” could (arguably should) include a first-run “test and configure” walkthrough.
.========= excerpt from fluxbox 1.3.8 keys file =========
### TIP: Mod1 is the Alt key on the PC keyboard and Mod4 is usually a key branded with a familiar company logo.
###
### You can get a list of possible modifiers by calling xmodmap -pm
### (it will also show you to which keys the modifiers are mapped)
### EXAMPLE OUTPUT:
### demo@antix1:/tmp# xmodmap -pm
### xmodmap: up to 4 keys per modifier, (keycodes in parentheses):
###
### shift Shift_L (0x32), Shift_R (0x3e)
### lock Caps_Lock (0x42)
### control Control_L (0x25), Control_R (0x69)
### mod1 Alt_L (0x40), Alt_R (0x6c), Meta_L (0xcd)
### mod2 Num_Lock (0x4d)
### mod3
### mod4 Super_L (0x85), Super_R (0x86), Super_L (0xce), Hyper_L (0xcf)
### mod5 ISO_Level3_Shift (0x5c), Mode_switch (0xcb)
###
##### MOUSE BUTTON ASSIGNMENTS MAY DIFFER ACROSS SYSTEMS.
##### CAN TEST YOURS BY RUNNING THE COMMAND
##### xev |grep button
##### ON MY SYSTEM, USING A GENERIC 3-BUTTON MOUSE:
##### leftMouseClick = Mouse1
##### rightMouseClick = Mouse3
##### middle(wheel)Click = Mouse2
##### wheel rockForward = Mouse4
##### wheel rockBack = Mouse5
###
### “###” PREFIXED LINES DENOTE PERMANENT COMMENTS.
### THIS IS INTENDED TO AID READABILITY, BY DIFFERENTIATING THEM
### FROM lines you might decide to #outcomment temporarily, for testing.
### (note: lines beginning with ! an exclamation point are also treated as comments)
###
###
### TIP: periodically CHECK ~/.desktop-session/log
### to see whether any of these keybind assignments are logged as ‘INVALID’An “all in one script” could (arguably should) include a first-run “test and configure” walkthrough.
…and, in order to further reduce complexity, let’s please scrap the status quo notion that “the default keybinds should be identical — and activated by default — across all pre-installed window managers”.
IMO, wingrid should be regarded as an optional amenity.
Its keybinds would only be activated for the preconfigured default Rox+iceWM desktop session
and
toward precluding “footgun” surprises, it should be an opt-in feature rather than activated by default.
Its availability could be announced, and opt-in invited, during a first-run popup dialog.
(Bear in mind that every session in a non-persistent liveboot/CD scenario is a “first run”.)Dave created a scripted a “Welcome” dialog intended for first-run display at start of session.
IIRC, the feedback consensus from betatesters was “during non-persistent liveboot, clicking to dismiss the dialog each session is an unwelcome extra step”.let’s please scrap the status quo notion that “the default keybinds should be identical — and activated by default — across all pre-installed window managers”.
toward supporting that earlier remark, I should explain
.fluxbox already, natively, provides functionality similar to wingrid.
Accessible via keychains, e.g. MacroCmd {MoveTo 0 0} {ResizeTo 50% 100%}
or
via titlebar and/or windowmenu commands
(many of which serve as toggles, vs the wingrid move+resize “one-way ticket” actions)
.
Skidoo,
I agree it would be nicer for keys to be mapped so that they didn’t overlap and cause weird, unexpected things to happen. I also agree it would make sense to be able to see what is mapped to do what by which program, and be able to change it if you didn’t like it, if that program was easily configurable. Personally, I don’t like the Ctrl+0 to 9 mapping at all, and never use it unless I’m on a keyboard with no keypad, which I hate, but beggars can’t be choosers on free laptops or laptops won on bets, and I end up using an external keyboard on the one I have that is missing it. I actually do think the default keymapping should be the same across the automatically installed window managers where reasonable, but agree that it’s unwise to turn footguns on automatically or hook them to keys commonly used by other applications.PS: yes, its not possible to make them all the same, especially when some have functions that others don’t. I like the turn them off by default, but make it easy for the user to find them, configure correctly and turn them on.
Dski,
My apologies for not reading your initial post better before replying. I was thinking you wre wanting to assign WinGrid to different keys that wouldn’t cause problems, but that wasn’t what you asked for. My mistake there. Ok, so you already turned WinGrid off. Unfortunately, WinGrid doesn’t have options to move the windows without resizing them. It resizes the Window to the “Grid”, and I guess that is why it has the name WinGrid. I looked at the JWM documents and I don’t see a way to programmably move a window to a corner with it, without using another program to do that. I guess you need another program capable of moving the windows without resizing them. IceWM has that built in, called WinArrange, but JWM does not.- This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by BobC.
> My apologies for not reading your initial post better before replying.
No problem. I appreciate your effort. Maybe I’ll give IceWM another spin.
On the Mac, Ctrl didn't exist; in Windows, Ctrl-A through Ctrl-Z did virtually nothing. From 1985 on, the choice was clear: you could get the full benefit of the most basic standard of computing, or you could use a GUI and a crippled keyboard and become this or that vendor's slave. I chose WordStar. LIVE FREE OR DIE.
No problem.
Try my new Center, Grow and Shrink functions for WinGrid, as well, if you would like those functions and are adventurous. Theoretically they should work with any window manager, but I’ve only tried them with IceWM on antiX19b so far.
https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/wingrid-tweaking-and-tuning/
> Yes, as dski has explained […]
I only wanted to say that ASCII keystrokes should be passed through. That’s pretty much the only thing I’m qualified to explain!
> we cannot know and dare not try to guess which single-modifier
> combos will be trapped//swallowed by any particular application.I thought it was the other way around: the usual order of keystroke handling is the kernel, X, the window manager or desktop system if one is running, and for non-X programs, the terminal emulator, the shell if one is running, and finally the application program, which might execute the keystroke (if nothing else has) or ignore it but surely cannot be said to “trap” or “swallow” anything. To my way of thinking, “trap” and “swallow” mean “execute and prevent downstream processes from receiving” the way comms software and shells can grab Ctrl-S (0x13, ASCII DC3/XOFF) and Ctrl-Q (0x11, ASCII DC1/XON).
My understanding is bound to be simplistic, but I think I have the basics right.
The word “menu” has been mentioned only once in this discussion, and that was in connection with Fluxbox.
In the case of JWM (the only window manager I’ve taken a close look at in antiX), Wingrid-type functionality belongs in the Alt-F2 menu (the one that mouse users get by clicking the thing at the left end of the title bar — do my prejudices show clearly enough?:-). Suggested command names: Fling, Scrunch, Lodge…. If folks really want the whole suite together with one-shot <modx>-<keyx> invocation, this could perhaps be offered (in the case of JWM) as an option through the Alt-F1 menu’s Desktop command (along with a message of caution about ASCII keystrokes). Methods of operation ought to get equal billing with themes, no?
An observation: “Shortcut” originally meant a keyboard equivalent of a command in a menu. Now it means any command keystroke at all, and X and X apps are becoming more and more like Emacs or vi or — worst of all — WordPerfect. I’m a keyboarder through and through, but I’m also very fond of menus. If that seems odd, check out screenshots of a 1979 app called WordStar.
Speaking of 1979, sorry for the duplicate sig. I originally added a sig manually, and later discovered the user profile function. I was afraid the system would add the sig retroactively, and so it did. Glrp.
Dan Strychalski
Hsinchu, Taiwan, R.O.C.On the Mac, Ctrl didn't exist; in Windows, Ctrl-A through Ctrl-Z did virtually nothing. From 1985 on, the choice was clear: you could get the full benefit of the most basic standard of computing, or you could use a GUI and a crippled keyboard and become this or that vendor's slave. I chose WordStar. LIVE FREE OR DIE.
the usual order of keystroke handling is the kernel, X, the window manager or desktop system if one is running, and for non-X programs, the terminal emulator, the shell if one is running, and finally the application program, which might execute the keystroke (if nothing else has) or ignore it but surely cannot be said to “trap” or “swallow” anything.
Yes, and thanks for the correction.
“can’t guess which of the global keybinds will overshadow//trap the accelerators assigned (and typically employing single-modifiers) within any particular application”
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