zzzFM file manager at Transifex

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  • This topic has 31 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated May 10-10:42 am by PPC.
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  • #58375
    Member
    AvatarWallon

    Dear all,

    I would like some advice for translation regarding some keyboard’s shortcuts.
    Here it is in English a little scrip;

    
    Use:
    1%% e event type  (evt_win_new)
    1%% w window id  (see zzzfm -s help)
    1%% p panel
    1%% t tab
    

    Here it is the translation in French;

    
    Utilisez :
    ⇥%%e⇥type d'événement (evt_win_new)
    ⇥%%w⇥identification de la fenêtre (see zzzfm -s help)
    ⇥%%p⇥panneau
    ⇥%%t⇥onglet
    

    Can I replace the;
    e by t
    w by i
    p by p
    t by o ?

    Thank you for your support.
    Best regards,
    Wallon

    #58382
    Member
    XecureXecure

    The letters shouldn’t be translated, so the original French translation is OK. Those letters represent terminal options (event command substitution variables) for zzzfm.

    zzzfm --socket-cmd|-s METHOD [OPTIONS] [ARGUMENT...]
    [...]
    Event COMMAND Substitution Variables:
    %e   event type (evt_start|evt_exit|...)
    %w   window ID
    %p   panel number (1-4)
    %t   tab number (1-...)
    %d   quoted directory ('/etc')
    %b   mouse button (0=double 1=left 2=middle 3=right ...)
    %k   key code  (eg 0x63)
    %m   modifier key (eg 0x4  used with clicks and keypresses)
    %f   focus element (panelN|filelist|devices|bookmarks|dirtree|pathbar)
    %v   focus element is visible (0 or 1, or device state change)

    So the letters need to be the same in English and French.

    I hope this helped.

    #58392
    Member
    marcelocripemarcelocripe

    Hi Wallon and Xecure,
    Olá Wallon e Xecure,

    I have doubts about the guidance on what we can translate and what we cannot.
    Eu estou com dúvidas na orientação sobre o que podemos traduzir e o que não podemos.

    “% e” everything with the percent symbol should not be translated.
    “%e” tudo que estiver com o símbolo de porcentagem não devemos traduzir.

    Can we translate the texts?
    Podemos traduzir os textos?
    “event type (evt_start|evt_exit|…)”

    I translated the first two lines. Is it correct as I did? I can include the translation on the line below the original English text, or I must remove / delete the two lines in English.
    Eu traduzi as duas primeiras linhas. Está correto como eu fiz? Eu posso incluir a tradução na linha abaixo do texto original em inglês, ou devo remover/excluir as duas linhas em inglês.

    #. MOD
    #. do not use xset_msg_dialog if non-main thread
    #. não usar xset_msg_dialog se não for a linha principal
    #. vfs_file_task_exec_error( task, 0, str );
    #. vfs_file_task_exec_error ( tarefa, 0, str );
    #: ../src/main.c:1206 ../src/main.c:1282 ../src/main.c:1284 ../src/main.c:1390
    #: ../src/main.c:1413 ../src/main.c:1415 ../src/main.c:1548
    #: ../src/settings.c:4902 ../src/settings.c:7954
    #: ../src/ptk/ptk-file-browser.c:1846 ../src/ptk/ptk-file-browser.c:1859
    #: ../src/ptk/ptk-file-browser.c:4581 ../src/ptk/ptk-file-browser.c:4587
    #: ../src/ptk/ptk-console-output.c:230 ../src/ptk/ptk-file-misc.c:2514
    #: ../src/ptk/ptk-file-misc.c:3091 ../src/ptk/ptk-file-misc.c:3320
    #: ../src/ptk/ptk-file-misc.c:3414 ../src/ptk/ptk-file-misc.c:3593
    #: ../src/ptk/ptk-file-properties.c:804 ../src/ptk/ptk-file-properties.c:815
    #: ../src/vfs/vfs-file-task.c:1419 ../src/item-prop.c:897
    #, c-format
    msgid “Error”
    msgstr “Erro”

    I am translating from the local file I downloaded from GitLab, which was made available by Skidoo. When I am able to complete, I will send the file to the transifex, if I need to make some adjustments I will do it as needed. I’m on line 1745 from 9959, the file is huge…

    Eu estou traduzindo a partir do arquivo local que baixei no GitLab, que foi disponibilizado pelo Skidoo. Quando eu conseguir concluir, eu enviarei o arquivo para o transifex, se precisar fazer alguns acertos o farei conforme a necessidade. Estou na linha 1745 de 9959, o arquivo é gigante…

    marcelocripe
    (Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)
    (Texto original em idioma Português do Brasil)

    #58407
    Member
    AvatarRobin

    Well, developers should really make much more use of the transifex feature “developers notes” addable for plurivalent strings, in which they can clearly state e.g. whether % sign is used as a placeholder or as a real percent sign for a number. Or in which context a string or word is meant to get translated. Sometimes we can only guess otherwise… In projects with only few translatable strings translators might be able to identify the corresponding strings and derive the context by running the program, but among e.g. 1506 translatable strings (for zzzFM) you’ll be lost without developers hints. This lack of clarity will lead to mistranslations to a completely different meaning apart from what was intended by the programmer.

    e.g. what should I translate
    Tab change dir 1$e %w 2%p %t 3%d
    to?
    Does it mean
    “in this tab you can change directories from 1%e to …”
    “in this tab you’ll get information about changed directories 1%e …”
    “press tab button to change directory 1%e …” (in this case I’d have expected the original string to read “Tab changes dir…”, so this was unlikely the intention of the programmer.)

    “Developers notes” are the designated way on transifex to overcome this problem. I’ve seen only very few of these by now. If you have never seen them, try “Developer notes” from filter selection “More” menu on left side and enter * (asterisk) as search string to get an idea what I’m talking about here.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by Robin.
    #58421
    Member
    XecureXecure

    For now, leave all options you have doubts empty. We can later explore if they are that important when testing the next .deb version with the new translations.
    I think I can build a .deb file with the new translations for testing and share it so we can check that the normal interface has everything working properly.

    Most people will never explore the command line options, so those are not as important and (in my opinion) do not urgently need to have a translation.

    #58447
    Member
    AvatarRobin

    While struggling with the exact meaning of some translations I’ve found it is quite impossible to translate correctly some of the strings without having read the correspondent lines in ignorantgurus’ manual before, I just dug out: Original SpaceFM manual skidoos zzzFM manual before, Xecure and skidoo (many thanks!) directed me to: Original zzzFM manual
    Maybe this is of some help for translators to other languages also, it contains many explanations of the exact meaning of not self explanatory strings.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by Robin.
    #58453
    Member
    marcelocripemarcelocripe

    Tab change dir 1$e %w 2%p %t 3%d

    This sentence seems to be an “enigma” for the superhero “Batman” … (laughs) to solve.
    Even after reading the translation of the manual, I have no idea what the Ignorant Guru’s intention in this sentence is. If that were the case, I would be happy, but there are several phrases like that, very short or extremely short phrases are difficult to guess the context so that we can make the necessary adaptations in the translation. SpaceFM is not the only case, it is the same with antiX and in several other operating systems and application programs.

    The total number of lines in Skidoo’s GitLab pt-BR.po file has many more lines, because the pt-BR translations are with the old version and the latest version of the SpaceFM transifex from Ignorant Guru.

    That is why I always tell transifex coordinators or reviewers to never block files or phrases for translation, these blocks occur in some antix-development languages. For this reason, I suggest to never block the files or phrases for translation of antix-linux-community-contributions, because at any time when a person interested in collaborating verifies the need to change a sentence due to the context not being ideal, after its correction and the creation of a new .mo file generated from this correction, everyone can benefit from this correction or improvement in the sentence text.

    marcelocripe
    (Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)

    ———-

    Esta frase parece ser um “enigma” para o super herói “Batman” … (risos) resolver.
    Mesmo após a leitura da tradução do manual, eu não faço ideia de qual é a intenção do Ignorant Guru nesta frase. Se fosse só este o caso, eu ficaria feliz, mas são várias frases assim, frases muito resumidas ou extremamente curtas são difíceis de adivinhar o contexto para podermos fazer as adaptações necessárias na tradução. O caso do SpaceFM não é o único, o mesmo ocorre com o antiX e em vários outros sistemas operacionais e programas aplicativos.

    O total de linhas do arquivo pt-BR.po do GitLab do Skidoo, possui muitas linhas a mais, devido as traduções em pt-BR estarem com a versão antiga e a versão mais recente do transifex do SpaceFM do Ignorant Guru.

    É por isso que eu sempre digo aos coordenadores ou revisores do transifex para nunca bloquearem os arquivos ou as frases para tradução, estes bloqueios ocorrem em alguns idiomas do antix-development. Por isso, eu sugiro para nunca bloquearmos os arquivos ou as frases para tradução do antix-linux-community-contributions, pois a qualquer tempo quando uma pessoa interessada em colaborar verificar a necessidade de alteração de alguma frase devido o contexto não ser o ideal, após a sua correção e a criação de um novo arquivo .mo ser gerado a partir desta correção, todos poderão ser beneficiados por esta correção ou melhoria no texto da frase.

    marcelocripe
    (Texto original em idioma Português do Brasil)

    #58455
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalistaanticapitalista

    @marcelocripe The only blocked antiX translations at transifex are of apps that are deprecated (no longer in use)

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #58456
    Member
    Avatarskidoo

    I just dug out: Original SpaceFM manual

    Please help me to understand why you did so.
    Is the installed UserManul somehow deficient compared to the “original” ?

    If not, please ~~ for the sake of avoiding confusion ~~ edit your post and remove that hyperlink.

    
    $ dpkg -L zzzfm-common |grep manual
    /usr/share/doc/zzzfm/zzzfm-manual-en.html
    
    $ man zzzfm |grep manual
           See:  /usr/share/doc/zzzfm/zzzfm-manual-en.html

    p.s.
    In case someone translates the html UserManual:
    Eeach time zzzFM launches it consults the system locale. If french, for example, it will first attempt to automatically load /usr/share/doc/zzzfm/zzzfm-manual-fr.html and will fallback to loading the default (en) file if a locale-specific helpfile is absent.

    #58463
    Member
    AvatarRobin

    Please help me to understand why you did so.

    Nothing easier than that: This link was simply the single hit in internet search engines promising an answer to the question what for heavens sake I should think when reading something like “protocols mounted in a terminal” or “handler commands”. I wasn’t aware until today you could mount anything except file systems, and even when knowing about pointers, the only handler I did know of was the A20 gate handler…

    These translations are that fastidious I’m not sure whether an evarage native language reader in target language will understand their meaning. I feel you need to be half a programmer to understand them in English language only… To be honest: These are specialist technical translations already.

    Is the installed UserManul somehow deficient compared to the “original” ?

    No, I don’t believe so. But the essential advantage over your manual is: It is present without the need of installing zzzFM on a productive computer system while translating strings in spare minutes.

    for the sake of avoiding confusion

    Did you change in your version of the manual fundamental items like the above described ones, needed for correct understanding the basic terminology in use? Well, I’ll remove the link, since you’ve asked kindly. But being able to recourse to an online source covering this special knowledge is something really needed for this translation task. Btw, am I mistaken your manual is somewhere on gitlab? I’ll search immediately, even when nothing was not found by search engines when I posted the above link to the ignorantguru. Now I’ll look for your version manually in the sources and replace the link.

    #58466
    Member
    XecureXecure

    I think you can also download this file:
    https://gitlab.com/skidoo/zzzfm/-/blob/master/data/zzzfm-manual-en.html
    and run in a browser. See if it helps (for anyone without zzzfm installed)

    #58467
    Member
    Avatarskidoo

    oops, already mentioned by Xecure while I was typing —v
    The zzzfm manual is available for download but, as a living document (aka WIP) no “up-to-date, up-to-the-moment, browsable online” has yet been published.

    We can invite/advise prospective translators to download
    https://gitlab.com/skidoo/zzzfm/-/blob/master/data/zzzfm-manual-en.html
    and view in browser the downloaded html file.

    .

    Did you change in your version of the manual fundamental items like the above described ones, needed for correct understanding the basic terminology in use?

    Hopefully the revised manual has not mangled the meanings. However, at this point, that detail remains unknown (unvetted)… and will remain unknown until/unless others have read the revised manual, and fleshed out any discrepencies between the status quo and the myriad “fundamental items” described therein. Bottom line: consulting the “old” manual does not help to advance the current project.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by skidoo.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by skidoo.
    #58471
    Member
    AvatarRobin

    So, back again. Sorry for the delay, I was offline all of a sudden due to provider server error immediately after posting last words. Thanks both of you, skidoo and xecure, this keeps me from searching now myself for the link on gitlab. I’ll replace it right now in my post above, so nobody gets confused. 🙂

    #58484
    Member
    AvatarRobin

    The only blocked antiX translations at transifex are of apps that are deprecated (no longer in use)

    @anticapitalista I believe here we face some kind of mistranslation: I’m quite sure Marcelo didn’t mean to say “blocked” in the literal sense of the word, but rather meant “reviewed“. Only two languages do have actually a noteworthy amount of reviewed strings: French and Portuguese. While in French language only very few strings are affected (509 items), in pt are 5450 (of 7991 total) strings reviewed and hence not editable by translators, which has the same effect as blocking at the end of the day. If you could remove the reviewed-flag from all strings in any language, they wouldn’t be any longer blocked for editing. For the time being I believe there is no need for reviewing strings, as long as people are reasonable while editing, not screwing up things on purpose. This might change the moment we are facing a troll, but even then it would be more feasible to put him out into the fresh air rather than keeping our translators from replacing obviously erroneous translations or string formattings.
    Once cleaned from this flag, there shouldn’t remain any reviewers anymore in the system, so this spook would be stopped once for all.

    But, @marcelocripe: There don’t seem to be any strings flagged as reviewed in pt_BR as far as I can see. Could you please provide some examples, which strings you can’t access, apart from deprecated entries (which shouldn’t show up in programs in use)? This might help anticapitalista to figure what positively your problem with blocking is.

    So long.

    #58490
    Member
    marcelocripemarcelocripe

    @Robin,

    You explained the whole sequence about the “blocking” on the transifex site very well. As you said very well, in pt-BR you don’t have this blocking problem and I hope it continues like this. As I or others identify the correct context of the sentences, we can make the necessary adaptations. @Felipecardope and Luck Dia (one of the unofficial Telegram MX Linux BR group administrators) are helping me a lot, as we identify phrases out of context, Felipe or I make the necessary adaptations in the transifex. The texts in pt-BR to be understood by most Brazilians need to be well explained and have verbs conjugated in the correct time, otherwise there is no adequate understanding. I hope that with his explanation, the anti-capitalist will be able to understand the situation that the other languages ​​are blocked and that prevent from being corrected. About the files that cannot be translated I identified them in the list displayed at the URL https://www.transifex.com/anticapitalista/antix-development/language/pt_BR/, these files have the following information “This resource is not currently accepting translations. “, I believe are no longer being used in antiX.

    marcelocripe
    (Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)

    ———-

    @Robin,

    Você explicou muito bem toda a sequência sobre o “bloqueio” no sítio transifex. Como você muito bem disse, em pt-BR não tem este problema de bloqueio e espero que continue assim. Conforme eu ou outras pessoas vão identificando o contexto correto das frases, podemos fazer as adaptações necessárias. O @felipecardope e o Luck Dia (um dos administradores do grupo do Telegram MX Linux BR não oficial) estão me ajudando muito, conforme nós identificamos frases fora de contexto, o Felipe ou eu fazemos as adaptações necessárias no transifex. Os textos em pt-BR para serem compreendidos pela maioria dos Brasileiros precisam ser bem explicados e possuir verbos conjugados no tempo correto, caso contrário não há a compreensão adequada. Eu espero que com a sua explicação, o anticapitalista consiga compreender a situação que estão os outros idiomas bloqueados e que impedem de ser corrigidos. Sobre os arquivos que não podem ser traduzidos eu os identifiquei na relação exibida na URL https://www.transifex.com/anticapitalista/antix-development/language/pt_BR/, estes arquivos possuem a seguinte informação “Este recurso não está atualmente aceitando traduções.”, eu acredito não estão sendo mais utilizados no antiX.

    marcelocripe
    (Texto original em idioma Português do Brasil)

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